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  • FIRST POST
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 1st Dec 18, 4:08 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 1Thanks
    mixMZ
    2 separate letters from BW Legal - Britannia Parking
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 18, 4:08 PM
    2 separate letters from BW Legal - Britannia Parking 1st Dec 18 at 4:08 PM
    Hi

    Came back from holiday and got 2 letters from BW Legal - on behalf of Britannia Parking Limited.

    They are both "Letter of Claim" dated the same: 14 November 2018 and referring to 2 different "Contraventions"
    One is for 27 October 2016 and the second one is for 23 December 2016.
    Both Letters referring to the same Contravention Location/Description: West Quay Retail Park Southampton / Failed to display a valid P&D ticket ot Permit.
    In both cases they asking for a payment of 130 to be made by 19th December 2018.

    Breakdown on estimated Court fees are as follow:

    Principal Debt+Initial Legal Costs 130.00
    Estimated Interest 11.48 (the other one for 23 Dec is 10.60)
    Estimated Court Fees 25.00
    Estimated Solicitor`s Costs 50.00
    Total: 216.48 (second one: 215.60)

    I scanned that letter and uploaded on google drive:

    drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gKgnxXiVoK66A5dH34hbfrXFKK9HeWIU


    Thing is that I personally do not remember any parking tickets, but during that time ,access to my car had also my ex and her brother who I am not in touch with anymore, so my defense might be a bit tricky...

    What do you advice, should I respond to those letters individually with the same "Response" but in different time frame to see how the first one goes?
    English is not my first Language so its a bit stressful have to say...
Page 2
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 8th Jan 19, 3:48 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    wondering where it will take me but i wrote email back to BW legal response and also copied BP where i got SAR from.

    I wish to outline my current position in reference to your claim.
    BP has not fully complied with POFA2012 therefore ,you cannot rely on the provisions of the Act and hold keeper liable.

    I confirm to you I was NOT the driver.
    You will need to pursue this claim with the driver once you identify them.

    Please note I am not obliged by law to disclose the identity of the driver and this does not affect my liability in this matter.

    I do not work for you or work for free, I have no mutual, lawful or agreed contract with you.

    I was not the driver of this vehicle at this time. I am not lawfully obligated to inform you of who the driver was; however, to provide you with any potential driver details, if any details were available, there will be an administration fee as below, which you MUST first agree to pay.

    Any other contact originating from you will be subject to fee charges as schedule below:

    Amount payable by you is: 25

    I'm refusing to accept that I have entered contract with BP.

    I was not the driver, so any further correspondents from you to pursue payment from me as a keeper will be seen as harassment as I remain in honor and offer remedy.

    Alternatively, you can cancel your charge, or I will happily wait for my day in court to challenge this "PCN" as the registered keeper and make counter-claim against you.

    For now and the foreseeable future, with regards to the above address, all implied right of access is denied to you and is denied to any third party acting on your behalf.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jan 19, 5:54 PM
    • 21,280 Posts
    • 33,501 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I was not the driver, so any further correspondents from you to pursue payment from me as a keeper will be seen as harassment as I remain in honor and offer remedy.
    Could you please translate this in laymen's terms, for those of us who don't understand what this means? It will help others.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 8th Jan 19, 8:02 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    Could you please translate this in laymen's terms, for those of us who don't understand what this means? It will help others.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    well, idea was to offer them solution for reasonable fee, and its up to them if they are willing to buy that information. In the case ,if that goes to court I would use that point in my defence as I was willing to be "cooperative" stayed honest and provided alternative solution they ignored knowing the fact I was not the driver anyway.

    have I phrased it that badly:/?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jan 19, 8:14 PM
    • 21,280 Posts
    • 33,501 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    have I phrased it that badly:/?
    As well as not understanding it, using American spelling lowers its standing, in my view - honorstly!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 8th Jan 19, 8:44 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    As well as not understanding it, using American spelling lowers its standing, in my view - honorstly!
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Sorry, English is not my first language. If you don`t mind ,I would appreciate your suggestion ,how should this sentence be written?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Jan 19, 8:46 PM
    • 65,485 Posts
    • 78,015 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Like to help, but I can't understand what it's meant to mean, either.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 8th Jan 19, 8:52 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    LoneStarState
    well, idea was to offer them solution for reasonable fee, and its up to them if they are willing to buy that information. In the case ,if that goes to court I would use that point in my defence as I was willing to be "cooperative" stayed honest and provided alternative solution they ignored knowing the fact I was not the driver anyway.

    have I phrased it that badly:/?
    Originally posted by mixMZ
    Not sure if that really helps your situation to be honest. If they've issued you POFA compliant Notices to Keeper then you offering driver details for a fee will be ignored (they would have undoubtedly ignored it anyways). Seeing as it's Britannia, they usually are POFA compliant with NTKs (with the exception of a few golden tickets sent out once every blue moon) so can attempt to hold you as keeper liable for the original charge (i.e. the higher PCN amount but none of that debt collection/initial legal costs/instruction fee nonsense)

    The implied right of access part is also not really relevant as BWLegal will not waste their time knocking on your door to reclaim the debt. The Letter of claims sent show you what they are planning to do and that is possibly issue court proceedings.

    Have you tried getting a landowner cancellation? Not sure who owns the West Quay retail park but if you've shopped there, an angry customer who will take their money elsewhere may encourage them to cancel.

    Did you not consider just removing your liability by naming the driver who now lives back in Europe?
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 11th Jan 19, 12:31 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    Just got response from BP to my email.
    doesn't look like they actually read what is sent to them...

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    We have received your Subject Access Request, under ICO guidelines we have one calendar month to respond.

    Please be aware we will send a copy of all personal data we hold only. If you have made a request for any additional information which does not qualify as personal data, please see below.

    YOU’RE REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

    Landowner agreement - You are not entitled to business sensitive information, it will only be supplied at court, as evidence and not before.
    Contract with the driver - The contract is on the signage in the car park. A copy of the signage will be provided as evidence at court.
    Machine reports - You are not entitled to transactions which do not relate to you, you will be provided with your transaction only. We are under no obligation to provide you with anything further.
    Picture packs - A copy of the signage will be provided as evidence at court.
    Your SAR request is free, however please be aware we are able to charge for additional copies and any requests for information we consider to be manifestly unfounded or excessive. ICO guidelines advise we are able to charge a reasonable administration fee, which is 10.

    Please send a cheque payable to Britannia Parking to the following address: Data Protection Officer, County Gates House, 7th Floor, 300 Poole Road, Poole, BH12 1AZ.

    Include a list of the additional information you require and the PCN number/s. Once the cheque has cleared we will action your request. We will only send additional information which is not business sensitive.

    Please refer to the ICO website for further information: https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-of-access/

    If you do not wish to pay 10, we are under no obligation to provide you with the information, your only options is to wait until this matter progresses to court, when it will be adduced as evidence.

    Once you are in receipt of your SAR, all additional correspondence regarding the request for additional information will not be responded to, unless payment of 10 is received.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 11th Jan 19, 1:28 PM
    • 3,663 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    YOU’RE REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
    Did they really spell it like that??
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 11th Jan 19, 1:33 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    Did they really spell it like that??
    Originally posted by Le_Kirk
    its a copy & paste ... haven't changed a thing.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 11th Jan 19, 1:37 PM
    • 3,663 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Wow, it just goes to show how intelligent they really are!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Jan 19, 1:39 PM
    • 11,427 Posts
    • 11,485 Thanks
    The Deep
    Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

    Any other contact originating from you will be subject to fee charges as schedule below: Amount payable by you is: 25

    Take this ridiculous nonsense out. It would certainly not impress a judge.
    Last edited by The Deep; 11-01-2019 at 1:42 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 11th Jan 19, 2:54 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

    Any other contact originating from you will be subject to fee charges as schedule below: Amount payable by you is: 25

    Take this ridiculous nonsense out. It would certainly not impress a judge.
    Originally posted by The Deep

    it looks a bit misleading, but the sentence:

    "Any other contact originating from you will be subject to fee charges as schedule below:"

    refers to a table below that contains 2 columns:

    "All / Any communications: " - empty and 2nd column "Amount payable by you is: 25" - which refers to information "who was the driver at that time" if they want to know it.
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 13th Jan 19, 12:53 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    So yesterday I received 2 separate claim forms from CCBC.

    I responded to both BWL letters before claim individually and sent them a SAR and requested additional info from both Bwl and BP.

    BWL responded only to 1 PCN where they stated that their Client is pursuing me as the registered keeper and does intend to rely on Schedule 4 of PoFA2012. (pasted response in previous post)

    As both PCNs relate to same car park (one is for 10/2016 and another for 12/2016) I assume the response from BWl should be seen same way on both claims?

    Both CCBC claims are worded same way (only difference is amount claimed that differs by aporx 2)

    The Claimant`s Claim is for the sum of 70.00 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on xx/10/2016 (Issue Date) at xx:xx:xx at Southampton - West Quay Retail Park.

    The PCN relates to Honda under registration XXXXXXX. The terms of the PCN allowed the Defendant 28 days from the Issue Date to pay the PCN, but Defendant failed to do so.
    Despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
    The Claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from xx/10/2016 to 09/01/2019 being an amount of 16.10.
    The Claimant also claims 60.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions.

    Amount claimed: 146.10
    Court fee: 25
    Legal representative's costs: 50
    total: 221.10
    Now, should I do AOS for both claims or should I somehow try to consolidate them?

    Also a bit confused regarding my defence. Is the wording on the claim form just a generic one and should include some more info about the claim? or should i start preparing my defence based on the replay i got from BWlegal to my SAR?

    Thank you for your help and advice.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 12:56 PM
    • 12,024 Posts
    • 12,712 Thanks
    KeithP
    What are the Issue Dates on each of your Claim Forms?
    .
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 13th Jan 19, 12:59 PM
    • 10,072 Posts
    • 13,276 Thanks
    beamerguy
    The Claimant also claims 60.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions.

    did or can you see 60.00 contractual costs on the signs ?

    BECAUSE ....
    BWLEGAL ADD ON A FAKE 60 ?
    In addition to the 'parking charge', the Claimant's legal representatives, BWLegal, have artificially inflated the value of the Claim by adding costs of 60 which has not actually been incurred by the Claimant, and which are artificially invented figures in an attempt to circumvent the Small Claims costs rules using double recovery.
    >>>> thanks to bargepole
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 13th Jan 19, 1:09 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    issue date on both claim: 10 JAN 2019
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 1:26 PM
    • 12,024 Posts
    • 12,712 Thanks
    KeithP
    issue date on both claim: 10 JAN 2019
    Originally posted by mixMZ
    With Claim Issue Dates of 10th January, you have until Tuesday 29th January to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 12th February 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 2:14 PM
    • 3,663 Posts
    • 2,696 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Also a bit confused regarding my defence. Is the wording on the claim form just a generic one and should include some more info about the claim? or should i start preparing my defence based on the replay i got from BWlegal to my SAR?
    Do not put anything in the box when doing the AOS, leave it blank. When you have completed your defence and BEFORE you submit it, post it on this thread for critique. Your defence should answer all/any of the points that BW Legal/the PPC showed on the LBC and the POC. If they did not fully disclose upon what premise they are chasing you, this forms part of your defence but the SAR should elicit the info you require. Anyone to whom you submit a SAR has 30 days to respnd so you may/may not receive this in time to help in your defence. Do not miss the deadline. KeithP will or has posted about your deadline and how you submit your defence.
    • mixMZ
    • By mixMZ 13th Jan 19, 2:30 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mixMZ
    what about my previous question:

    Both CCBC claims / PCNs relate to same car park and are worded same way (only difference is amount claimed that differs by aporx 2)
    should I do AOS for both claims individually or should I somehow try to consolidate them into 1 claim?
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