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  • FIRST POST
    • Tentatively
    • By Tentatively 17th Nov 18, 8:31 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 28Thanks
    Tentatively
    District Enforcement - Chancers!
    • #1
    • 17th Nov 18, 8:31 PM
    District Enforcement - Chancers! 17th Nov 18 at 8:31 PM
    Hi all,

    Not really looking for advice on this one, just posting so you all can follow. Just won my first POPLA appeal here this week:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5864814&page=2#topofpage

    So, I received an Ntk last week stating I owe £60 to District Enforcement Limited. They were telling me I had to pay because I had parked in "contravention of the rules" in my own car parking space. Couldn't help but let out a chuckle.

    I live in an apartment that is owned by my family and therefore I have access to the exact wording of the leasehold. Nowhere in said leasehold does it state anything about parking rules, enforcement or paying any charges.

    Here's the kicker, I'd actually displayed their poxy parking pass in my windscreen when they gave it to me and have done ever since for about the last year. So I log on to their portal to see their evidence photos and to my amazement, this is what I found.

    https://i.imgur.com/1sGP7ab.jpg

    Note that the flash is reflecting off the condensation, making it even harder to see.



    The thing I have highlighted in red is the parking permit, obscured by condensation at nearly 6am.
    I can't wait to hear their excuse for this one.
    Last edited by Tentatively; 17-11-2018 at 8:41 PM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Nov 18, 8:33 PM
    • 38,556 Posts
    • 86,447 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 17th Nov 18, 8:33 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Nov 18, 8:33 PM
    I think you should warn anyone that if they click on the Next Post button whilst viewing your PCN picture on the imgur site, they might want to have a box of hankies ready.
    Fair play in her date for sticking with her.

    Meanwhile, do the scammers really think you can control the weather? I would think they should be worried about you sending a flood of biblical proportions their way in that case.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 17-11-2018 at 8:37 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Tentatively
    • By Tentatively 12th Jan 19, 8:46 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Tentatively
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 19, 8:46 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 19, 8:46 PM
    Update on this:

    After "appealing" directly to District they had the nerve to respond with this:

    After reviewing the photographic evidence from our records
    we can confirm that there was no permit displayed in the vehicle at the time of the occurrence. The
    charge was therefore correctly issued.
    We are confident that you have been given the same opportunities to accept the conditions of use, and
    indeed dispute the issue of the charge, as every other user. It would be a gross injustice if we were not to
    apply the same criteria to yourself as we have done for the other motorists subject to the charges.
    For the sake of consistency we must apply the law uniformly and therefore the charge must stand.
    I was bored one afternoon so I decided to see what the blind moron's of District would say if I phoned them demanding they review the evidence on the phone and stating the legalities of the lease, it's covenants etc.

    As expected, the idiot on the other end of the phone thought he knew it all and was adamant that a head lease existed and that superceded my lease. I'd had enough of debating the legalities to the moron so hung up mid sentence and called the Management Agent.

    The MA responsible for the properties was dismissive at first, stating they don't get involved with parking and any appeals had to be with the PPC.

    He wasn't so dismissive when he received a letter in writing informing him of primacy of contract and the other legalities, namely the breach of the Landlord Covenant of the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

    Received a phone call from the MA this week. Apologising profusely and stating that he'd had the PPC cancel the charge and then put me in touch with the head of customer service when I stated I wanted further action taken against District.

    I'll be writing to them in the coming days stating I want District removed from the site and the fob activated barrier, which is already installed and has been for a while, put back into use.

    Again, the posts in this forum have been invaluable. Many thanks all.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 8:51 PM
    • 65,831 Posts
    • 78,330 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 19, 8:51 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 19, 8:51 PM
    He wasn't so dismissive when he received a letter in writing informing him of primacy of contract and the other legalities, namely the breach of the Landlord Covenant of the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

    Received a phone call from the MA this week. Apologising profusely and stating that he'd had the PPC cancel the charge and then put me in touch with the head of customer service when I stated I wanted further action taken against District.

    I'll be writing to them in the coming days stating I want District removed from the site and the fob activated barrier, which is already installed and has been for a while, put back into use.
    Love it!

    If that doesn't happen, take a look at the new idea in the Deep's thread at the top right now, and report them to whatever the LVT is called now (tribunal about unfair lease charges).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Jan 19, 9:04 PM
    • 21,347 Posts
    • 33,624 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:04 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:04 PM
    Great FightBack. Keep at them!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 9:15 PM
    • 65,831 Posts
    • 78,330 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:15 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:15 PM
    Dyl Kurpil will be spitting feathers.

    DE is run by ex-Police who seem to be aggressive but entitled individuals, with delusions of grandeur. They even used to mimic Police NIP wording in their NTKs a few years back.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Tentatively
    • By Tentatively 12th Jan 19, 10:59 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Tentatively
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:59 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:59 PM
    He'll be spitting feathers all right.

    The signage that was in the car park has mysteriously disappeared
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 11:05 PM
    • 65,831 Posts
    • 78,330 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:05 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:05 PM
    So happy to hear that!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Jan 19, 11:59 PM
    • 21,347 Posts
    • 33,624 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:59 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 19, 11:59 PM
    It's great to see someone come out their corner actually snarling and fighting, smashing in to them. An extremely refreshing change from reading the frequent snowflake response from most we get here.

    Keep us up to speed on developments @Tentatively (you're far from 'Tentative' fella )
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Tentatively
    • By Tentatively 13th Jan 19, 8:56 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Tentatively
    Here's the letter I've sent to the MA.


    Dear XXX,
    In order to fully explain the complaint, I’ll provide you with a detailed account of the events over
    the last four months.


    On the 22nd October 2018, I received a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper, demanding that I pay
    £60 for not displaying a permit. If the payment was not made, the letter threatened legal action
    and a County Court Judgement.


    District Enforcement provided pictures of the supposed parking infraction. As you saw, there is a
    small white square under the A pillar of the vehicle, hidden under condensation. This is the
    permit provided by District Enforcement. I called XXX shortly after receiving this the Parking Charge Notice through the post and was finally transferred through to I believe <MA>, the Property
    Manager for the property. I explained the situation and the fact that I had displayed the permit
    but was told that “We don't involve oursevles with residents parking issues and I should
    appeal to District Enforcement directly”.


    I appealed to District Enforcement on the 29th October, highlighting the fact that I had in fact
    displayed a permit in my windscreen and that the parking warden must have made a mistake. I
    received a reply to that appeal on the 21st November 2018. Their response was as follows and
    I’ve attached the full response in Appendix A.


    “After reviewing the photographic evidence from our records we can confirm that there
    was no permit displayed in the vehicle at the time of the occurrence. The charge was
    therefore correctly issued.”



    In an effort to resolve the matter over the phone, I phoned District Enforcement and asked the
    person that answered to review the appeal decision and again review the photographic evidence.
    I was met with contempt, demands of payment and a threat of court action.


    I believe that highlights the fact that District Enforcement is employing severely incompetent
    staff, or they are lying in an effort to extort residents out of their money. I personally believe it’s
    the latter. How can three separate individuals miss the fact that there is clearly a permit displayed
    in the windscreen of the car?

    I requested <FAMILY MEMBER> write the letter that you have read in an effort to get the fraudulent ticket cancelled. I contacted MA again just before Christmas and was put through to XXX, MA's
    assistant.

    On the 8th January I finally received word that MA had reviewed the letter, agreed that there
    was definitely a permit of some sort displayed in the windscreen of my car and had instructed
    District to cancel the ticket.



    The complaints I have are:

    1. Why was I told that MA does not deal with residents parking issues when it is clearly within your remit to do so, as employers of District Enforcement?


    2. The only legal document that governs the usage of the demised property is the lease that
    Leaseholder entered into with the Freeholder. Both parties agreed to abide by the
    specified covenants set out in the lease; none of these covenants stipulate any displaying
    of a permit or charges resulting from not displaying a permit. This lease was signed
    before the parking enforcement contract was agreed with District Enforcement. To the
    best of my knowledge, no alteration to the Lease has been made and therefore Primacy of
    Contract is in place, rendering the enforcement of parking in the parking space illegal.


    3. In Part 1 of Schedule 6 titled ‘Landlord Covenants’, the tenant is granted the right of
    quiet enjoyment of the property without any interruption from the Landlord or any person
    claiming under the landlord except otherwise permitted by the lease. As the enforcement
    of parking and harassing demands for payment are not permitted in the lease, the actions
    of District have put the Freeholder in breach of the quiet enjoyment covenant.


    How I would like it to be put right:

    1. I would kindly request that you terminate the contract with District Enforcement with immediate
    effect and the barrier fob system which is already in place be put into use to prevent
    unauthorised parking. This was promised when the apartment was being purchased and
    never materialised.


    2. If the contract with District Enforcement cannot be terminated, instruct them to not issue
    any tickets on my apartment's parking space. Any further demands for payment will force me to initiate County Court proceedings against them claiming damages for a breach of Data Protection for unlawfully requesting my details from the DVLA and an injunction to prevent further harassment, along with costs.



    3. Please could you let me know the details of the arrangement between District
    Enforcement and MA. Specifically if District Enforcement are paid through the Service Charge and do they keep all proceeds from the Parking Charge Notices?

    Sincerely,
    Tentatively

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jan 19, 1:09 AM
    • 65,831 Posts
    • 78,330 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Love it!

    No-one needs DE anywhere near their home/car. Completely unnecessary regime.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Tentatively
    • By Tentatively 18th Jan 19, 9:08 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Tentatively
    Reply is as follows, thoughts on how to proceed?
    I would advise that I have investigated the points noted and provide a summary response as follows:
    1. Parking enforcement at property was required due to local businesses and visitors. I can confirm we hold no affiliation with District Enforcement, other than as a third-
    party service provider. We do not enforce parking nor receive any fees from District Enforcement for
    provision of their services. However, as a gesture of goodwill I can confirm that Property
    Manager, made contact on your behalf to request consideration for charges to be waived on this occasion.
    This was agreed, and the parking fine has therefore been rescinded.
    In relation to parking enforcement services, as managing agents we ensure the provider; deals with issuing
    all permits, that signs are clearly displayed, photographs are taken of vehicles which are not displaying
    permits and that there is an appeals process in place. We have therefore upheld our management
    obligations.
    2. Primacy of contract is a moot point regarding the provision of parking enforcement. I would refer you to
    1.1.14 of Schedule 7 : Part 1 of the lease which states as follows in relation to services which may be
    provided by the Landlord:
    1.1.14 any other service or amenity that the Landlord may in its reasonable discretion (acting in
    accordance with the principles of good estate management) provide for the benefit of the tenants
    and occupiers of the Building.
    3. Virtually every lease contains a quiet enjoyment clause. It is a promise by a landlord to allow a tenant to
    use a space for the purpose for which it was leased and to not substantially interfere with that use. Your
    claim that enforcement of parking is a breach of this clause is incorrect.
    Last edited by Tentatively; 18-01-2019 at 9:10 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 18th Jan 19, 9:15 PM
    • 12,119 Posts
    • 12,864 Thanks
    KeithP
    1.1.14 any other service or amenity that the Landlord may in its reasonable discretion (acting in accordance with the principles of good estate management) provide for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building.
    I wonder how slapping a £60 charge on them is "for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building"?
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Jan 19, 9:27 PM
    • 65,831 Posts
    • 78,330 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Parking enforcement at property was required due to local businesses and visitors.
    No, the key fob gated system would deal with that, and allow residents to have the peaceful enjoyment without harassment, that is already granted in their leases.

    I can confirm we hold no affiliation with District Enforcement, other than as a third-party service provider.
    Why did you believe their spiel and not Google them first? The rudeness on the phone and aggression that I have documented, typifies their behaviour, as is repeatedly reported online. And when I say 'Google' I don't mean to read their own website. Even if they were friendly, they still sue people - do you honestly think that is acceptable?

    Why did you not undertake a questionnaire and vote from all residents in advance, to see if there was the required consensus to vary the lease and impose charges and restrictions where there were none before? The Landlord and Tenant Act sets out the simple requirements for landowners and Managing Agents, and you ignore that at your peril.

    Where was your due diligence to protect residents from these predators?

    Primacy of contract is a moot point regarding the provision of parking enforcement.
    No, it most certainly is not. Imposing a hated parking firm to sue us, is not 'providing for the benefit of the tenants and occupiers of the Building.'

    This is a derogation from grant, and you are liable for your conduct and that of your agent, in riding roughshod over the rights and interests of your residents. Transcripts attached here may help you understand you error, which will now result in a complaint to an appropriate lease tribunal (please provide me with the required ADR details):

    http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

    ( click on, save and attach the bottom 5 cases there - don't show them the Parking Prankster link!).


    Kindly call your dogs off.

    Should DE ever ticket cars in my space again, and/or obtain my (or my visitors') data from the DVLA, I will sue the MA and DE jointly for harassment and data misuse, as there is no legitimate interest in charging residents, and you are guilty of a derogation from grant.

    You have the option to put in the key fob system, as promised. I suggest you do so, and kick DE out forthwith/give notice for them to quit the site and inform them that my vehicles and space are exempt from their little game.

    If you remain unsure of your position, I suggest you seek legal advice but you have already been informed that my space is lawfully opted out of any 'parking scheme' you think you can impose on me, contrary to the rights and easements I already enjoy.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-01-2019 at 9:31 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Tentatively
    • By Tentatively 18th Jan 19, 9:33 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Tentatively
    Cheers both!

    I'm away from home and my laptop right now so I'll action this when I return home.
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