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  • FIRST POST
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 11th Nov 18, 9:56 PM
    • 20Posts
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    That debbie
    Letter from BW Legal
    • #1
    • 11th Nov 18, 9:56 PM
    Letter from BW Legal 11th Nov 18 at 9:56 PM
    Need advice please. I got a postal PCN from National Car Parks NCP for being parked longer than time paid for (half an hour over)
    I've followed all the advice to ignore all letters. I've had 2 from TRACE recovery. I have now received a letter from NCP saying my account has been passed to BW Legal who will be contacting me.
    Oddly, the letter from BWL came with the letter from NCP in the same envelope, both have no "human" signature. The signatures are just printed with the company names.
    What should I do now?
    A. Ignore it?
    B. Write a letter explaining that my disabled son was performing in a show at a nearby theatre and took a while to get changed and we didn't realise the time? I can prove this and have a copy of his Blue badge
    C. Offer to pay for the half hour we overstayed
    Any advice gratefully received
Page 2
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Dec 18, 11:13 PM
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    Redx
    see the GDPR2018 FIGHTBACK thread by coupon-mad , posted several months ago, also read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread post #2 as well, plus read other recent threads on a similar theme as they have all asked the same questions and been given suitable advice


    research is what you need to do


    SAR goes to the DPO of the PPC themselves


    LBC REBUTTAL goes by email to B W LEGAL
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 5:51 PM
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    That debbie
    Redx I would appreciate your advice further. I have read the info on the Newbies thread but just need some clarification

    I have received the court claim form from Northampton. I need to send the Acknowledgement of service. Do I send their form back or do it online through MCOL or doesn't it matter either way? I am stating that I intend to defend all of the claim. Do I have to send my defence at the same time?
    Just a couple of things which I want to know are relevant or not..
    I got married on 1st September and sent them an email with a copy of my marriage certificate as they requested and acknowledged and said they would update their records, but all letters sent since have been in my maiden name, even the court claim letter.
    I sent an SAR as advised by you, but they didn't answer any of my questions, just sent me a letter stating that the right to restrict processing is not applicable in this case, and sent me a copy of their privacy notice
    Thank you
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 5:54 PM
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    KeithP
    I have received the court claim form from Northampton.
    Originally posted by That debbie
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?
    .
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 5:56 PM
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    That debbie
    Their "Notice of County claim Court issued" arrived a few days after the court claim from Northampton (albeit dated the same) dunno if this has any relevance
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 5:58 PM
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    KeithP
    Their "Notice of County claim Court issued" arrived a few days after the court claim from Northampton (albeit dated the same) dunno if this has any relevance
    Originally posted by That debbie
    No relevance.

    Again, what is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?
    .
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 6:00 PM
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    That debbie
    4th January
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 6:02 PM
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    • 14,953 Thanks
    KeithP
    4th January
    Originally posted by That debbie
    With a Claim Issue Date of 4th January, you have until Wednesday 23rd January to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Wednesday 6th February 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over three weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 6:04 PM
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    • 27,485 Thanks
    Redx
    Redx I would appreciate your advice further. I have read the info on the Newbies thread but just need some clarification

    I have received the court claim form from Northampton.

    1) I need to send the Acknowledgement of service. Do I send their form back or do it online through MCOL or doesn't it matter either way? I am stating that I intend to defend all of the claim.

    2) Do I have to send my defence at the same time?

    3) I sent an SAR as advised by you, but they didn't answer any of my questions, just sent me a letter stating that the right to restrict processing is not applicable in this case, and sent me a copy of their privacy notice
    Originally posted by That debbie
    1) you could do, but its better , easier , quicker and CHEAPER to do it online, plus it cannot go missing in the post or at the CCBC

    so I would do it online , today , if its not been done already (and only the AOS online for now)

    2) NO, KeithP will tell you when the defence must be emailed by, when you tell us the DATE OF ISSUE (which is why he asked and I now see you and he have replied))

    3) so send their DPO at NCP the legal beagles template by email and ask for all the data again (another SAR) , do not ask for anything that isnt your data as this gives them the opportunity to duck and dive

    if they do not comply, report them to the ICO with copies of all the SAR paperwork and their refusals to comply to the GDPR


    make sure it goes DIRECT to the DPO email on the NCP privacy page
    Last edited by Redx; 13-01-2019 at 6:45 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jan 19, 6:32 PM
    • 22,522 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    I sent an SAR as advised by you, but they didn't answer any of my questions, just sent me a letter stating that the right to restrict processing is not applicable in this case
    To whom did you send the SAR?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 7:25 PM
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    That debbie
    I used the Legal Beagles template to send the SAR.
    Before I resend it, from what you've said above, please advise if I should change it or leave anything out that is deemed irrelevant. I took advice from the forum & LB of things to ask for
    This is what I sent:
    Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law! relating to myself.
    ALL photos taken
    - a close up of the signs on the day in question
    - evidence that you have paid 60 to a debt collector
    - Pay and display PTD machine record from that day, of payments made
    - evidence of your grace period, regarding disabled person holding a Blue Badge under the EA2010
    - all data held, all evidence you will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
    If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible.
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 7:26 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    That debbie
    To the DPO at NCP
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 7:27 PM
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    Redx
    you asked for details that are not your data in that list

    have you added to the LEGAL BEAGLES template ?

    the template is basic and so you must have dragged the above list from somewhere ?


    edit


    the NEWBIES thread currently mentions this


    A SAR is free. Ask for (as a minimum):

    - ALL photos taken
    - a close up of the signs on the day in question
    - evidence that they have paid a debt collector, if they are trying to add 60 per PCN (they can't do that but will if YOU let them)
    - all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
    - if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this and follow it up if they refuse). You want the PDT machine record if it;s an PDT machine car park.
    - all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
    - and a list of all PCNs they consider are outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs in one claim, not several separate claims.
    see the advice in post #14 here


    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5949280
    Last edited by Redx; 13-01-2019 at 7:48 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 7:49 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    That debbie
    I used that template. The only thing I added was about the grace period. In a previous response to one of my emails to BW Legal where I stated mitigating circumstances regarding the grace period for a disabled person, they replied, they do have a grace period but I overstayed it, but they didn't state what their grace period is and it is not mentioned in NCP's Terms & conditions
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 13th Jan 19, 7:54 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    That debbie
    I didn't ask for letters and e-mails as I already have them all and have printed off all the e-mails
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 7:55 PM
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    • 27,485 Thanks
    Redx
    so you ask B W LEGAL for those details like GRACE PERIODS and blue badge compliance etc , putting them on the spot under the CPR rules

    dont go off piste with NCP, stick to your personal data alone in your SAR

    ask B W LEGAL by email in your SAR and CPR to them for the same details plus ADD your extras that dont come under THE SAR to NCP
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jan 19, 2:03 AM
    • 68,624 Posts
    • 80,892 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Write a letter explaining that my disabled son was performing in a show at a nearby theatre and took a while to get changed and we didn't realise the time? I can prove this and have a copy of his Blue badge
    NOT that you ''didn't realise the time''. NEVER say that, you were not at fault!

    But yes to the fact he needed more time to go about his daily life.

    I stated mitigating circumstances regarding the grace period for a disabled person
    Send the PPC and BW Legal (both) a copy of the EHRC Code of Practice for Service Providers, and ask how they will defend INDIRECT DISCRIMINATION adversely discriminating against the disabled population 'at large', which cannot ever be justified by being heard to say 'we didn't know the person was disabled'.

    State that the law provides for a statutory duty on Service Providers like parking firms (breach of which can result in a fine and/or imprisonment) to adjust inflexible policies like fixed time limits, which would include grace periods. A parking firm cannot apply a blanket policy to people who take longer due to their 'protected characteristics' and who enjoy the protection of the Equality Act 2010.

    Read the EHRC CoP first (Google it) and read about:

    - indirect discrimination against the disabled population 'at large', and

    - the fact they MUST make reasonable adjustments by law, and

    - the fact that this includes fixed time limits that would work adversely against disabled visitors (search the EHRC CoP for the word 'TOURS' as this gives a relevant example of this exact type of discrimination).

    Attach proof of the disability, if you have not already. in fact I would attach it again.

    Here is a letter I wrote earlier for someone to really lay it on the line in a similar case:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74071023#post74071023

    And read this, to understand the law. The principle here (below link, where Councils were forced to agree to allow disabled people more time for their money - e.g. a free hour on top of paid-for time, or double time allowed for the same tariff) can just as easily be applied to private parking operators because the EA 2010 applies to all situations:

    https://www.wake-smith.co.uk/news/council-car-park-case-settled-a-victory-for-blue-badge-holders/

    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-01-2019 at 2:14 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 19th Jan 19, 6:38 PM
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    • 5 Thanks
    That debbie
    Thank you for your advice. I've had a look. Should I mention that also in my Defence? I'm really struggling to know how to word my defence . I've had a look at some examples of defences on here, but some of them are so long winded and full of legal jargon I don't understand. Should I just keep it simple in layman's terms, and focus on the fact there was a disabled person in the car?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jan 19, 6:41 PM
    • 68,624 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Don't use a longwinded one, use bargepole's concise template from the NEWBIES thread post #2, and then add a couple of numbered points using the words I said above.

    Are you actually at defence stage, got a court claim and have acknowledged it?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 19th Jan 19, 6:42 PM
    • 13,685 Posts
    • 14,953 Thanks
    KeithP
    Base your Defence on one of the shorter concise Defences by bargepole linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

    You know where the NEWBIES thread is - I supplied a link to it, twice in fact, in post #27 above.
    .
    • That debbie
    • By That debbie 20th Jan 19, 8:52 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    That debbie
    Yes I've acknowledged it
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