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  • FIRST POST
    • Chihiro85
    • By Chihiro85 10th Nov 18, 5:01 PM
    • 3Posts
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    Chihiro85
    Can shed be taken down?
    • #1
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:01 PM
    Can shed be taken down? 10th Nov 18 at 5:01 PM
    Hi All,

    Hoping for a little advice on this if anyone has any. Will be seeking some free legal advice next week also!

    Ok, so we moved into our first house last week after years of renting. We have a shared ownership house and we absolutely love it. Throughout the process we told the housing association we would be putting a shed up as we needed to store bikes and garden tools out there.

    After moving in we applied for permission from the HA and the developer of the estate and both granted permission. Neither asked for any specifics on the sheds dimensions and neither stipulated any restrictions.

    We had a 10x14 foot shed installed that covered the entire width of our garden and a little under a third of the length. We wanted to cause as little impact as possible so got one with a low roof either side near the fence (5’10” at the edges rising to 7’6” in the middle of our garden) we bought the shed because we felt like that would have the least impact on our neighbours light - the sun passes right over it so it never blocks light. Unfortunately the neighbour felt that their favourite part of the view was right where the middle of our shed was and complained to the developer.

    We then received an email on Friday saying the permission had been recinded as we they received a complaint and so the shed would have to be taken down.

    Obviously we’re a bit stunned, we have gone to considerable expense and they are now saying we have to take it down!

    Can anyone advise on the legality of this? It seems absurd that we could have written permission from both the housing association and the developer and then be asked to take it down after we install the thing!

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Page 1
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 10th Nov 18, 5:15 PM
    • 27,302 Posts
    • 16,330 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:15 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:15 PM
    We had a 10x14 foot shed installed that covered the entire width of our garden and a little under a third of the length.
    Did you deliberately omit details of the dimensions when you asked permission? This seems rather excessive for a couple of bikes and some garden tools?

    complained to the developer.
    Are you surprised?
    Last edited by xylophone; 10-11-2018 at 5:37 PM. Reason: format
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Nov 18, 5:16 PM
    • 45,893 Posts
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    G_M
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:16 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:16 PM
    So the email was from the developer?

    What is the basis of the developer's rights over your property? Is there a covenant in your property Title, in favour of the developer, limiting what you can erect?

    If not, why does the develper need to grant permission and how can they rescind it?
    If yes, what exactly does it say?

    How exactly was the permission initially granted? In a letter? Saying exactly what?

    If you wish to challenge this,precise word is important.

    Or if you choose to ignore it, and if the developer takes legal action which you choose to defend, exact wording will be important.

    Having said that, it's a large shed. I can understand why the neighbour might be upset and wonder why you did not do the neighbourly thing upfront, invite him to tea, bake a cake, explain your plans in advance and see what his reaction was....?


    edit: it might come down to a definition of 'shed'. You may be deemed to have erected a 'warehouse'..........
    • middleclassbutpoor
    • By middleclassbutpoor 10th Nov 18, 5:31 PM
    • 381 Posts
    • 322 Thanks
    middleclassbutpoor
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:31 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:31 PM
    Speak to a solicitor if you want advice on the legality of a situation.

    Just looked at the size of the shed and looks like a mini garage but you are well within your rights to put it there if you had permission which didn't specify a max size and it doesn't breach any other planning laws.

    I would simply write back asking under what grounds can they retract the permission and to point out where you have broken the conditions of their permission which allows them to retract it?

    See what comes back.
    • middleclassbutpoor
    • By middleclassbutpoor 10th Nov 18, 5:32 PM
    • 381 Posts
    • 322 Thanks
    middleclassbutpoor
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:32 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:32 PM


    edit: it might come down to a definition of 'shed'. You may be deemed to have erected a 'warehouse'..........
    Originally posted by G_M
    https://www.buyshedsdirect.co.uk/garden-sheds/wooden/14-x10-shire-bison-heavy-duty-double-door-workshop#undefined2

    Think that will be the exact point - everyone I can find states its a workshop or summer house
    • dimbo61
    • By dimbo61 10th Nov 18, 5:38 PM
    • 10,072 Posts
    • 5,451 Thanks
    dimbo61
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:38 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:38 PM
    https://www.planningni.gov.uk/index/advice/advice_apply/advice_apply_homes/advice_around_home/advice_home_structures.htm





    Home owners: Outbuildings and structures
    Garden sheds, greenhouses and other buildings
    Planning permission is not required provided that:
    1. The shed / greenhouse / building is used for domestic purposes only.
    2. The ground area covered by the shed/greenhouse/building and any other buildings within the boundary of the property, excluding the original house, is not more than half the total area of the property.
    3. No part of the shed / greenhouse / building is in front of the principal or side elevation of the original house that faces onto a road.
    4. The maximum height of the shed / greenhouse / building is 4 metres.
    5. The maximum eaves height of the shed / greenhouse / building is 2.5 metres if it is within 2 metres of the property boundary.
    6. No part of the shed / greenhouse / building is within 3.5 metres of the boundary with a road to the rear of the house.
    7. If you live in a house within a World Heritage Site, area of outstanding natural beauty or National Park the maximum total area of ground covered by buildings, enclosures and pools situated more than 20 metres from any wall of the house does not exceed 10 square metres.
    8. If you live in a house within a conservation area, World Heritage Site, area of outstanding natural beauty or National Park the shed / greenhouse / building is not situated between the principal or side elevation of the house and its boundary.
    9. The building is not used for the keeping of pigeons.
    Note: Measurements are always calculated using external measurements
    Last edited by dimbo61; 10-11-2018 at 5:43 PM.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    • 1,715 Posts
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    Carrot007
    • #7
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    I would simply write back asking under what grounds can they retract the permission and to point out where you have broken the conditions of their permission which allows them to retract it?
    Originally posted by middleclassbutpoor

    Mainly I think becuase they don't own it! As SHARED OWNERSHIP the HA does not want a house with an overbearing ridiculous "SHED" that would complicate future sale.


    The developer will not care unless they are still building on the estate. (or still selling property).
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    • 27,302 Posts
    • 16,330 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    Having said that, it's a large shed. I can understand why the neighbour might be upset and wonder why you did not do the neighbourly thing upfront, invite him to tea, bake a cake, explain your plans in advance and see what his reaction was....?
    Because he knew the planned size and anticipated an objection?
    • molerat
    • By molerat 10th Nov 18, 5:52 PM
    • 19,578 Posts
    • 13,778 Thanks
    molerat
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:52 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:52 PM
    Something that size is stretching the term "shed". In normal terms a big garden shed is 10 x 8 and normally 8x6 or 6x4.
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 10th Nov 18, 5:54 PM
    • 64,939 Posts
    • 381,183 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    That's not a shed, that's an aircraft hangar.... and, if that's taking up 1/3rd of the garden it'll be an unsightly carbuncle on the outdoor aspect of all your neighbours (who probably now have you labelled as a !!!! by the way).
    • Chihiro85
    • By Chihiro85 10th Nov 18, 6:02 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Chihiro85
    Thanks for the advice. Will speak to the HA on Monday but sounds like I will have to take it down.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Nov 18, 6:05 PM
    • 26,639 Posts
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    Davesnave
    I doubt if it's just the visual impact that is causing concern.

    As it's much larger than a place adequate to store a couple of bikes and tools for a small garden, the neighbour probably envisages other uses, such as a workshop with power tools being used, possibly on a frequent basis.

    They might even think it's going to be used for some kind of home enterprise.

    These fears may well be groundless, but you did nothing to allay them, so the result was a complaint.
    A garden is never so good as it will be next year....
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Nov 18, 6:43 PM
    • 17,111 Posts
    • 47,309 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    Did you deliberately omit details of the dimensions when you asked permission? This seems rather excessive for a couple of bikes and some garden tools?



    Are you surprised?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    I am guessing that the HA assumed that when you said "shed" = you meant "shed" (ie a standard size one).

    I've just been out and measured mine I had installed and it's 7' x 5' (ie 35 square feet) and it sounds as if my garden is rather bigger than yours too.

    Yours is 140 square feet - ie massive!
    Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world.

    It's the only thing that ever has.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 10th Nov 18, 6:56 PM
    • 5,163 Posts
    • 3,283 Thanks
    csgohan4
    Wind up, calling it
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • Sibz
    • By Sibz 10th Nov 18, 7:00 PM
    • 97 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    Sibz
    I'd at least be expecting some compensation if I were you. If you've received written authorisation allowing you to build a shed, and they have then reneged upon that after you have purchased and built it then they have to accept at least some of the incurred costs surely.

    If the highest point of the shed is only 7.5 feet tall, the neighbours would have to be seriously short for their views to be being removed by it (unless it was their view into another houses' windows).
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Nov 18, 7:05 PM
    • 17,111 Posts
    • 47,309 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    It looks to most of us as if the "reneging" was by OP. They were the one that used the word "shed" - when actually they meant a much bigger building that they hoped would get away with being called a shed.

    It was a try-on. It didn't work. End of....
    Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world.

    It's the only thing that ever has.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Nov 18, 7:23 PM
    • 26,639 Posts
    • 96,034 Thanks
    Davesnave

    It was a try-on. It didn't work. End of....
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    When people say "End-of," I take that as a linguistic sign of doubt.

    If you were sure, you'd not feel a need to say it. Anyway, I'm not sure.

    On the web site, the building is listed under sheds, but it's also specifically referred-to as a workshop. What distinguishes a workshop from a shed is something others can argue about if they wish, but I'm not convinced a bullet proof distinction can be achieved.

    I feel that the if the HA wanted to impose limits, they should have stated what they were when the enquiry was made.
    A garden is never so good as it will be next year....
    • societys child
    • By societys child 10th Nov 18, 7:41 PM
    • 5,520 Posts
    • 6,162 Thanks
    societys child
    Originally Posted by Chihiro85



    and then be asked to take it down after we install the thing!
    Thing, being the operative word. Can you post some pics showing it's impact on the surroundings?

    • societys child
    • By societys child 10th Nov 18, 7:55 PM
    • 5,520 Posts
    • 6,162 Thanks
    societys child
    I feel that the if the HA wanted to impose limits, they should have stated what they were when the enquiry was made.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    I do agree, but maybe the HA were fooled into a false sense of security by the OPs request . .
    . . putting a shed up as we needed to store bikes and garden tools



    Maybe they didn't realise 'garden tools' included a John Deere tractor

    • adonis
    • By adonis 10th Nov 18, 8:00 PM
    • 806 Posts
    • 759 Thanks
    adonis
    What if the op had asked if he could build a pond and the answer was yes, so a 10ft by 14ft 6ft deep koi pond with waterfalls and air pumps going should be acceptable,


    If the the HA and the developer say it is OK they cannot change their minds, the conditions should be clear and unambiguous to avoid confusion.
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