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    • moving1moretime
    • By moving1moretime 10th Nov 18, 8:30 AM
    • 70Posts
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    moving1moretime
    LPG underground pipe
    • #1
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:30 AM
    LPG underground pipe 10th Nov 18 at 8:30 AM
    Wasn't sure if this was the right place to post, so please move if not.
    We have had an LPG bulk tank installed and did the trench work ourselves, it's all now ready to fill back in, but the soil is full of old broken bricks, slates, tiles stones and bits of glass, we managed to dig down to the clay base but are a bit concerned about filling back in with the above.
    We had a thought about using some black curved hard plastic Guttering covered in gas warning tape and laying this over the lpg pipe, thus protecting it and then filling the trench back in...... Any thought's
Page 1
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Nov 18, 11:16 AM
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    Davesnave
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 18, 11:16 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 18, 11:16 AM
    The obvious thing to have used would have been yellow utility ducting and one wonders why those installing the pipework didn't.

    https://store.jdpipes.co.uk/94-110mm-yellow-gas-ducting-length-6m/

    In your situation, I'd lay a length of geofabric first, pulling it under the pipe and then surround the pipe with at 120-150mm of 10mm rounded drainage gravel, wrap the geofabric over the top, add the warning tape and back-fill.

    That way the pipe is protected, as the gravel around it will spread localised loads, yet not mix with the stones and garden soil.


    Others might have easier or better ideas, though.
    A garden is never so good as it will be next year....
    • Rodders53
    • By Rodders53 10th Nov 18, 12:38 PM
    • 515 Posts
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    Rodders53
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 18, 12:38 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 18, 12:38 PM
    http://1gasconnections.co.uk/gas-connection-trench-ducting-requirements
    Sand or similar fine material under and to cover/protect pipe then a caution label then fill back with soil.

    Surprised the tank/pipe installer/commissioner didn't advise / require it done to standards.

    I'd avoid gravel - even nominally smooth stuff - as you do not want the pipe to ever be punctured.

    Also note that if any vehicular traffic is expected over the pipe run it may need additional load spreading with concrete blocks or similar. http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/lpg/servicepipework.htm
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Nov 18, 12:52 PM
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    EachPenny
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 18, 12:52 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 18, 12:52 PM
    In your situation, I'd lay a length of geofabric first, pulling it under the pipe and then surround the pipe with at 120-150mm of 10mm rounded drainage gravel, wrap the geofabric over the top, add the warning tape and back-fill.

    That way the pipe is protected, as the gravel around it will spread localised loads, yet not mix with the stones and garden soil.

    Others might have easier or better ideas, though.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Yes, utility companies would generally start the backfill with finely-graded imported fill and not use the excavated material (or mechanical compaction) until a certain depth of cover had been achieved. (subject to manufacturer's specification).

    If the idea of using imported material is not appealing, then the alternative is to use a sieve/riddle to ensure the initial backfill doesn't include anything larger than the manufacturer's recommendations. A sieve/riddle is cheap, but not what anyone would describe as 'easier'.

    The OP's suggestion of upturned guttering risks ending up with a void between the guttering and pipe as it would be impossible to backfill fully. Having a void like this could cause problems, especially if it is continuous and acts as a land drain.

    But because gas is involved it really needs to be confirmed with an appropriate professional what the right thing to do is in this situation.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Nov 18, 12:53 PM
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    Davesnave
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 18, 12:53 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 18, 12:53 PM
    I'd avoid gravel - even nominally smooth stuff - as you do not want the pipe to ever be punctured.
    Originally posted by Rodders53

    Anything that would puncture a gas pipe would presumably puncture drains too, so I'm not clear why rounded gravel used around drainage pipes would be unacceptable.

    I'd guess that gravel is used around 110mm drains and similar because it moves slightly when placed under load and distributes that load, while a gas pipe is thinner overall and might not have the same requirements.


    Agree it's probably best not to guess, though!
    Last edited by Davesnave; 10-11-2018 at 12:56 PM.
    A garden is never so good as it will be next year....
    • moving1moretime
    • By moving1moretime 10th Nov 18, 2:20 PM
    • 70 Posts
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    moving1moretime
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 18, 2:20 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 18, 2:20 PM
    Thank you for the replies, we will not go ahead with the guttering method,.... The gas company supplying the tank just told us to fill the trench back in no need for any special materials but avoid the large stones etc??.... We were not at the property when the tank was Installed so didn't have chance to speak to anyone about it at the time of Imstallion unfortunately
    • moving1moretime
    • By moving1moretime 10th Nov 18, 2:21 PM
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    moving1moretime
    • #7
    • 10th Nov 18, 2:21 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Nov 18, 2:21 PM
    Also we cannot put conduit on now as the LPG pipe is connected at both ends already.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Nov 18, 5:37 PM
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    Davesnave
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:37 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 5:37 PM
    Also we cannot put conduit on now as the LPG pipe is connected at both ends already.
    Originally posted by moving1moretime
    Yes, we understood that; hence other suggestions.

    What I didn't understand is why your installers didn't just do it. I had a similar pipe laid for our oil boiler 3 years ago and I dug the channel to save time too, but the installer shielded the pipe without being instructed. The extra materials cost is negligible.


    Anyway, if you are aware where it is and pass that information on when you sell, I'm sure it'll be fine, whatever protection you choose.
    A garden is never so good as it will be next year....
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 10th Nov 18, 6:08 PM
    • 3,608 Posts
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    Head The Ball
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 6:08 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 6:08 PM
    Also we cannot put conduit on now as the LPG pipe is connected at both ends already.
    Originally posted by moving1moretime
    You could use pipe insulation which is split length ways.
    Every Village has its Idiot.

    If you don't know who your Village Idiot is

    it is probably you.
    • moving1moretime
    • By moving1moretime 10th Nov 18, 6:31 PM
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    moving1moretime
    Thank you,..... Any idea where we could get the split pipe from, and what diameter it would need to be, the lpg pipe is 25mm thick.
    • moving1moretime
    • By moving1moretime 10th Nov 18, 8:39 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    moving1moretime
    Oh and building sand or sharp sand or is it all the same
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Nov 18, 10:06 PM
    • 7,952 Posts
    • 21,428 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Thank you,..... Any idea where we could get the split pipe from, and what diameter it would need to be, the lpg pipe is 25mm thick.
    Originally posted by moving1moretime
    Personally I wouldn't put anything on the pipe without checking it with the manufacturer - if you've been advised to just backfill avoiding bricks etc then that is what you should be aiming for.

    The risk is that if you have a plastic pipe (as I assume) and put another material next to it (e.g. pipe insulation) there is a risk of incompatibility between the materials which could - over time - lead to the pipe failing prematurely. [An example of this is where people have placed PVC electrical cables next to polystyrene insulation... https://www.esfrs.org/black-museum/all-the-black-museum-cases/pvc-cable-insulation-and-polystyrene-insulation/]

    I'm not suggesting this will happen to your pipe - just saying that unless you know the materials are compatible then don't do it.

    Oh and building sand or sharp sand or is it all the same
    Originally posted by moving1moretime
    Whichever is cheapest at your supplier.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • moving1moretime
    • By moving1moretime 10th Nov 18, 10:40 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    moving1moretime
    Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply, all advice and suggestions are most appreciated.
    • troffasky
    • By troffasky 11th Nov 18, 8:42 AM
    • 113 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    troffasky
    [An example of this is where people have placed PVC electrical cables next to polystyrene insulation... https://www.esfrs.org/black-museum/all-the-black-museum-cases/pvc-cable-insulation-and-polystyrene-insulation/]
    Originally posted by EachPenny

    What a grimly fascinating website that is!
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