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  • FIRST POST
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 10th Nov 18, 8:02 AM
    • 1,435Posts
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    littlerock
    House swap with son
    • #1
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:02 AM
    House swap with son 10th Nov 18 at 8:02 AM
    We retired a few years ago but still fit and active. We live in a large 4 bed Victorian house in an area which has gone up in the world so is now worth a tidy sum. It is mortgage free. Our only child, our son, lives around 20 minutes away with his wife and two children in a 3 bed 1930s house on which he has a large mortgage. (His wife is a performer and self employed so her income is variable. Besides the children are very small at present.).

    While not such a nice area as ours their house is well constructed and well modernised. We could live in it comfortably we feel. We have been discussing a house swap. We realise this would mean paying stamp duty which could be a pretty large sum for ours. Would it be possible just to swap houses with our son continuing to pay his mortgage on his house while we live there?
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 10th Nov 18, 8:13 AM
    • 33,874 Posts
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    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:13 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:13 AM
    All kinds of tax liabilities

    Deprivation of assets if you go into or need care

    Your son's mortgage provider wouldn't allow it
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    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Nov 18, 8:32 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:32 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:32 AM
    I think "deprivation of assets" is something that only applies if done within a 7 year time period before going into care??

    - So - check if it is 7 years
    - I expect OP isn't old enough to be in the age range where care homes become a possibility
    - Though, obviously, many people never do go into care homes anyway (they remain fit or they refuse to etc).

    Re the mortgage provider - they may want to be involved if there is still a substantial mortgage one way or another. But then - who is to say there would be? OP could sell their house to their son for a suitably low price (ie way lower than they would sell it for on the open market). That may be a possibility.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-11-2018 at 8:34 AM.
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    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 10th Nov 18, 8:38 AM
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    da_rule
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:38 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 18, 8:38 AM
    The only tax liability for your son will be the stamp duty on the value of your house.

    Op, you will have to pay stamp duty on your sons house value. You will also essentially be gifting the difference in value between your house and their house which may have inheritance tax implications for you/your wife if you die within 7 years.

    In terms of deprivation of assets, you are only depriving yourself of the purpose of the gift is to take an asset out of the reach of the local authority or, if at the time of making the gift, it was anticipated that you would need care (there is no limit on how far back a local authority can look). Therefore, if your wife are both fit and healthy and the purpose of the gift is to help your family out (give them a bigger house) then you should be fine. Also, you aren’t depriving yourself of the whole value of your current house, just the difference in value between the two.

    In terms of mortgage, your son could ask about porting it to your property. If your property is worth more then the lender may agree as it’s better security. Alternatively, he could do like most other people do when they sell and buy with a mortgage and redeem the current mortgage using funds from a different lender to be secured over the new house. It’s best to speak to a broker for this as some lenders have problems with family connected transactions.

    There will also be legal costs and potentially mortgage costs (redemption fees, admin costs etc.) involved.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Nov 18, 9:34 AM
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    AdrianC
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:34 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:34 AM
    Your son could take on a mortgage of the same size as his current one, secured against the new property. This would be a much safer bet for the lender, because the LtV would be considerably lower.


    Then you simply gift him the difference in equity.


    So... (example numbers)

    Now -

    Him: 200k mortgage against 250k house.
    You: 0k mortgage against 750k house.

    After -
    Him: 200k mortgage against 750k house.
    You: 0k mortgage against 250k house.
    Gift: 500k in equity.


    It's not really that different to any normal chain, except there's a very big gift tied in.

    As with any large financial gift, there may well be tax implications, as well as should you require residential care in the future and exhaust the value of your (250k) property.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Nov 18, 9:41 AM
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    00ec25
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:41 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:41 AM
    I think "deprivation of assets" is something that only applies if done within a 7 year time period before going into care??
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    no, you are confusing that with inheritance tax rules
    there is no time limit for deprivation of capital,

    however, it is down to the council to prove that the reason for the swap was to deprive the owner of capital which could otherwise have been used to fund their care. Hence no time limit.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Nov 18, 9:58 AM
    • 33,479 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:58 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:58 AM
    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/stamp-duty-land-tax-manual/sdltm04020a
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 10th Nov 18, 10:02 AM
    • 1,435 Posts
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    littlerock
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 10:02 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 10:02 AM
    house is in my name (owned before I met current partner) and I am currently i in good health with no ongoing medication at present so unlikely it could be seen as attempt to avoid health care costs.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Nov 18, 10:05 AM
    • 19,127 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 10:05 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 10:05 AM
    "Currently in good health with no ongoing medication at the moment" says nothing about next week, let alone the next five or ten years.
    • moneysaver
    • By moneysaver 10th Nov 18, 11:19 AM
    • 683 Posts
    • 336 Thanks
    moneysaver
    I would assume you could live in your sons house no bother as long as your son tells his lender. He might also need to rent it to you with minimal rent which means changing his mortgage to BTL.

    You can let whoever you like live in your house, no mortgage company to worry about.

    There is no mention in your post about depriving assets, I assume you are not asking about this.


    Moneysaver
    Last edited by moneysaver; 10-11-2018 at 11:24 AM.
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