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  • FIRST POST
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 9th Nov 18, 7:54 PM
    • 33Posts
    • 17Thanks
    $izzle$
    Not told (re: Motobility payments)
    • #1
    • 9th Nov 18, 7:54 PM
    Not told (re: Motobility payments) 9th Nov 18 at 7:54 PM
    Hi, not sure if anyone can help with this, but here goes.
    Back in the summer when transitioning from DLA to PIP , the DWP decided that I was no longer entitled to high rate mobility.
    Following a failed MC I took it to appeal.
    I have a Motobility car and Motobility informed me that I could keep the car for 6 months if I was taking my case to the tribunal.
    I started receiving standard mobility payments into my bank account along with the enhanced Care that I was awarded.
    I know I must have been stupid at the time, but I was in a state of despair at losing my benefit and it didn’t occur to me WHO was paying Motobility during this time!
    I assumed this was all part of their scheme with so many people being denied high rate mobility, to help them to arrange other transport for the future.
    However, I noticed a mistake on my decision documents which I sent to the tribunal and the DWP backed down and reinstated my high rate mobility.
    So after speaking to them I am told they will pay Motobility again from 31st October.
    However it has now been pointed out that I will have to pay all the payments the DWP didn’t make to Motobility which is 12 weeks worth.
    Although I will get my high rate backdated, it will only be the difference between low rate, which I received during that time, and high rate, which is not going to cover 12 weeks of Motobility.
    I accept Motobility are a charity, but why wasn’t this pointed out to me when they offered me to keep the car for 6 months...neither the DWP or Motobility mentioned any of this in their letters.
    I would be interested in hearing if anyone else has found themselves in this situation.
    I will, of course give them the back-dated money I receive but will have to pay the rest in instalments.
Page 1
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 8:54 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 8:54 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 8:54 PM
    I've looked at the information on the Motability website https://www.motability.co.uk/about-the-scheme/personal-independence-payment/unsuccessful-reassessment/ and it doesn't appear to explain what to expect in this situation at all. If you return the car after 26 weeks they pay you a small sum of money even though they haven't received any money for the £26 weeks.

    Doesn't seem logical that because you are now keeping the car you have to pay them for the 26 weeks. Don't think you've been stupid at all.

    I will be interested to see what other responses you get. The amount you will have to pay (if you do) is going to the 12 weeks of lower rate mobility you have banked so £271.80. If you can't do this I think you will simply have to talk to Motability and ask them if you can pay to over a period of time as you suggest - it can't be the first time this has happened.
    • Lanzarote1938
    • By Lanzarote1938 9th Nov 18, 9:03 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 1,228 Thanks
    Lanzarote1938
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:03 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:03 PM
    Surely once you receive the backdated top up then you will have received all the money which should have gone to motobility so can pass on the low rate you have had plus the backdated amount.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 9:25 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:25 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:25 PM
    Surely once you receive the backdated top up then you will have received all the money which should have gone to motobility so can pass on the low rate you have had plus the backdated amount.
    Originally posted by Lanzarote1938
    I would assume that over the last 12 weeks some, if not all, the low rate mobility money has been spent in ignorance of the possibility that it might be requested later.
    • Sunny Intervals
    • By Sunny Intervals 9th Nov 18, 9:34 PM
    • 766 Posts
    • 2,545 Thanks
    Sunny Intervals
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:34 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:34 PM
    My memory may be failling me, but wasn't Motability's excuse for having a huge pot of money that they needed it to help folk pay during this exact situation?
    • Lanzarote1938
    • By Lanzarote1938 9th Nov 18, 9:53 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 1,228 Thanks
    Lanzarote1938
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:53 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:53 PM
    My memory may be failling me, but wasn't Motability's excuse for having a huge pot of money that they needed it to help folk pay during this exact situation?
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals

    This isn't motobility's money but taxpayers money which has been paid out. Surely no one thinks they can have the money in their pocket plus a car.


    From the OP it seems that it was because it was going to tribunal that s/he was allowed to keep the car for 6 months. Does anyone not taking a refuse decision to tribunal just get a free 6 months car ownership?
    Last edited by Lanzarote1938; 09-11-2018 at 9:56 PM.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 10:00 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:00 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:00 PM
    This isn't motobility's money but taxpayers money which has been paid out. Surely no one thinks they can have the money in their pocket plus a car.

    From the OP it seems that it was because it was going to tribunal that s/he was allowed to keep the car for 6 months. Does anyone not taking a refuse decision to tribunal just get a free 6 months car ownership?
    Originally posted by Lanzarote1938
    The fact that the OP went to tribunal is not relevant. If you look at the link in my post at #2 you will see that when a user loses the enhanced rate of benefit they have a choice of returning the car quickly and being paid a certain sum of money or keeping the car for longer and receiving a reduced payment. They are not required to make lease payments during this period.
    • Sunny Intervals
    • By Sunny Intervals 9th Nov 18, 10:02 PM
    • 766 Posts
    • 2,545 Thanks
    Sunny Intervals
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:02 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:02 PM
    Found it:

    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/motability-to-hand-2000-to-every-customer-who-falls-foul-of-pip/


    ETA - Sorry, calcotti, I think this is what your link was about. Long day.


    So the transitional payment from Motability + the arrears from the DWP should cover the Motability arrears for the 26 weeks? I agree it's clear as mud about what you'll owe for the 26 weeks, though.
    Last edited by Sunny Intervals; 09-11-2018 at 10:10 PM.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 10:22 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:22 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:22 PM
    If you don’t return the car you don’t get a payment. Have also realised having now read the link more carefully myself that for those who only joined Motability after 2014 there seems to only be a payment of £250 if car returned within 8 weeks, or you can keep the car for 26 weeks lease free with no payment.
    • Sunny Intervals
    • By Sunny Intervals 9th Nov 18, 10:39 PM
    • 766 Posts
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    Sunny Intervals
    You're right, just skimmed through the longer guidance on the link at the bottom. I misunderstood how the reduced payments worked.


    I still can't see any clear guidance about what happens if you appeal and win without having returned the car. I suppose the "common sense" response would be that you would need to pay the same amount you would have paid if you'd been placed onto the enchanced rate in the first place (just as the DWP have to pay you the amount they should have paid you in the first place), but benefits and common sense don't often go together and this really ought to be spelled out.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 10:48 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    I can’t find any guidance for this situation either - although it can’t be uncommon.

    Another ‘common sense’ argument could be that as you were allowed to keep the car for 26 weeks lease free why should you now have to pay for it for that period of time.

    Regardless of what the rules are the Motability scheme should be communication them clearly to users.

    A related story https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44188363, Motability boss earns 10 x the Prime Minister.
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 10th Nov 18, 1:06 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    $izzle$
    Wow, I wasn’t expecting so much response, so thank you everyone.
    My point is, I wasn’t expecting to get the car for free, but because nothing was mentioned in the letter from Motability ie “you can keep the car for 6 months if you are appealing, but you will have to make the payments during that time” then I would have given it a lot of thought to see if I could afford the difference between the low rate mobility I was receiving and paying the full amount to Motability whilst awaiting the tribunal hearing.
    As Cqalcotti pointed out, the extra income was spent, because no one said I had to make the car payments myself, in fact I was surprised to even be receiving the low rate payment as I assumed it would be off-setting some of the car money
    There has been a lot of information about Motability and what they are doing for people losing their high rate of mobility benefit so I assumed this was their way of helping people who were going to appeal the DWP’s decision.
    Please don’t think I thought “great, a free car” it didn’t even cross my mind at this time that I was actually expected to pay for it..I was too distraught at having lost my benefit at that time to even think about it, to be honest.
    I was just grateful that I could hang onto my car until the appeal was heard, rather than have to hand it back then if the appeal was successful ( as I genuinely believed I would be ) have to start the Motability process again, which would have meant at least a 4 month wait for a new car.
    It does seem to be a “grey area” and I can’t believe I am the only person who has been affected by this?
    Thank you all for your responses, it’s a good debate even if no one has the answer.

    $izzle$
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 10th Nov 18, 1:26 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    $izzle$
    This is interesting:
    On the Motobility website “ If the DWP decides you are not eligible to receive ERMC, you will no longer be eligible to use the Motobility scheme. Unfortunately we are only able to supply cars to people who receive one of the relevant mobility allowances and cannot take payments directly from you

    If you have not been awarded PIP following a DLA to PIP reassessment you may be eligible for a transitional support package.
    Last edited by $izzle$; 10-11-2018 at 1:29 AM.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Nov 18, 6:20 AM
    • 3,794 Posts
    • 3,610 Thanks
    poppy12345
    One question that i can't see has been asked, sorry if it has and i missed it. How long have you been a motability customer for?
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 10th Nov 18, 7:38 AM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    This is interesting:
    On the Motobility website “ If the DWP decides you are not eligible to receive ERMC, you will no longer be eligible to use the Motobility scheme. Unfortunately we are only able to supply cars to people who receive one of the relevant mobility allowances and cannot take payments directly from you

    If you have not been awarded PIP following a DLA to PIP reassessment you may be eligible for a transitional support package.
    Originally posted by $izzle$
    $izzle$. Point of clarification. In your original post you said "However it has now been pointed out that I will have to pay all the payments the DWP didn’t make to Motability which is 12 weeks worth." Who has told you this - is it Motability themselves?
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 10th Nov 18, 6:12 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    $izzle$
    Poppy I have been a Motobility customer since 2013.
    After I lost my husband suddenly in 2010 I bought my daughter a second hand car ( as she was my carer ) but the cost of insurance and putting right MOT issues etc made it too expensive to run in the end, so when I was reassessed for DLA and was awarded high rate mobility I applied to Motobility, as everything is taken care of with the monthly payment.
    My daughter is the registered driver, and as my carer, uses it for shopping, taking me out and getting me to appointments etc.
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 10th Nov 18, 6:20 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    $izzle$
    Hi Calcotti, I telephoned the DWP to enquire as to whether the back-payments were going to be sent directly to Motobility, but she said, no the payment is coming to me.
    They are starting payments to Motobility from 31st October and I should speak to Motobility about the period that they haven’t been paying, ie the 12 weeks.
    I phoned Motobility yesterday and the advisor was a bit vague, as though he himself wasn’t sure, and he just said, it would take 2 months or so for everything to settle down so to just hold onto the back-pay when I receive it, so I can pay it to them and I would have to make payments towards the difference once it was worked out.
    As I said, he sounded vague so I felt I still didn’t know what was going to happen, so came on here to see if anyone had be n in this situation, which surely some people have, just not someone on the forum.
    Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it.

    $izzle$
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Nov 18, 6:53 PM
    • 3,794 Posts
    • 3,610 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Poppy I have been a Motobility customer since 2013.
    Originally posted by $izzle$
    Even with this quoted here from the link above, still doesn't make sense why you owe them money.

    Financial support available:

    For customers who joined the Scheme during 2013 and return the car within eight weeks** a transitional support payment of £1,000 will be available. Alternatively you can choose to keep the vehicle for 26 weeks** and receive a reduced payment of £250.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 10th Nov 18, 7:09 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    Even with this quoted here from the link above, still doesn't make sense why you owe them money.

    Financial support available:

    For customers who joined the Scheme during 2013 and return the car within eight weeks** a transitional support payment of £1,000 will be available. Alternatively you can choose to keep the vehicle for 26 weeks** and receive a reduced payment of £250.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    The issue arises because now the OP has had their award reinstated they want to keep the car so it’s not being returned - at least that’s how I read it. I guess Motability may be saying that the early termination of the lease under these provisions hasn’t occurred and OP should make the payments. However that’s why I asked OP to clarify whether it is Motability who have “pointed out” that OP will will have to make these payments. If it’s somebody else they may be wrong.
    • Peter6268
    • By Peter6268 11th Nov 18, 7:47 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Peter6268
    It would appear a poster on the Scope Forum has been through a similar circumstance with a (semi) decent outcome:

    https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/39563/pip-appeal-win-and-motability

    In your position I would re-contact Motability and if necessary ask to speak with a manager to give you the correct advice, or use the 'live chat' facility so you can save a hard copy of their advice:

    Live chat is available Monday-Friday 8am – 7pm and Saturday 9am-1pm.

    You access it via the 'Ask a question' vertical blue tab on the far right hand side of the undermentioned web-page, about half way down (it reverts to auto assistance when Motability is closed):

    https://www.motability.co.uk/contact-and-support/
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