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  • FIRST POST
    • TigerOX
    • By TigerOX 9th Nov 18, 3:50 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    TigerOX
    Smart Parking PCN - Bit Different
    • #1
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:50 PM
    Smart Parking PCN - Bit Different 9th Nov 18 at 3:50 PM
    Hello,

    recently (Yesterday) received a PCN from Smart Parking Ltd.

    I have read the newbie thread and a couple of other posts here but this doesn't seem to be covered here (although i dont doubt that is have been historically covered)

    went to dinner in friends in a company owned vehicle to a pub restaurant have been to many times before and this is where the fun starts.

    During the day, the pub used to charge for parking but after 7pm parking was free (i know this because I have been in there a number of times for food and was there with people from work the sunday before). The PCN shows the company owned vehicle entering the car park at 8:55 pm and leaving at 10:27 pm.

    there is a new sign set up saying parking chargeable at all times and tried to get access to the pay machines. However, the pay machines are against a brick wall with a car parking space directly/including in where the pay machines are - at this time a van had parked in this space and there was absolutely no access to the ticket machines (A child could not have fitted through) . There is then a sign that reads "please ensure you have a valid parking ticket at all times or speak with a member of staff.

    Now historically, you never needed to do this as parking was free but I went to the table where my friends were and once the waitress arrived she was informed of the cars reg details to which she advised it won't be an issue (four witnesses to this). it was a busy Friday night, we ate dinner and left as we would do.

    Yesterday my company received a PCN saying that no one had paid for a valid ticket and as such a 100 fine was due.

    I went to visit the pub to discuss this but they said it is not their issue and I had to take it up with Smart Parking....the system had been fitted the day before we went for dinner.

    remarkably, two other people I had dinner with also parked, didn't pay and have not yet received any pcn.

    is there anything that can be done or should the company just pay?

    I was going to get a photo of the pay machines and the fact they're in a parking space against a wall and no access if a car is parked as well as a picture of the sign saying please have ticket or speak with staff (which I did) and refuse to pay the fine on the basis i tried the next best option.

    HELP?????
    Last edited by TigerOX; 09-11-2018 at 4:12 PM. Reason: too much information
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Nov 18, 3:54 PM
    • 37,946 Posts
    • 22,061 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:54 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:54 PM
    The newbies FAQ gives specific advice to keepers of company cars and how to ensure the PPC is made aware of the day to day keeper.

    Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

    You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 9th Nov 18, 4:06 PM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 4,043 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:06 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:06 PM
    You argue estoppel
    The landowner's employee agreed that you wouldn't be ticketed. you're entitled to rely on that agreement. You have witnesses to it so can prove it (Smart won't wheel out the waitress in court but you can wheel out one or two of your friends who were there).
    Go back and take photos.


    In any event you complied with the t&cs by doing what the sign said and speaking to a member of staff. You did what that person said.


    Also under the CoP (I'm sure you've worked out what this stands for) new regulations/changes to old regs have to be brought to the attention of car park users in an obvious way (for precisely the reasons you set out - frequent users who know the t&cs just wouldn't check every time, so a change has to be brought to your attention in some way).


    You need to go to the owner of the pub and kick up a fuss. They can't fob you off. The PPC is their agent and they are responsible for their actions. You are a regular customer. You did everything expected of you.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • TigerOX
    • By TigerOX 9th Nov 18, 4:17 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    TigerOX
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:17 PM
    Thanks
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:17 PM
    Hi Quentin,

    As mentioned, I read those forums so I understand which bits are relative to it being a company vehicle etc its more the new parking set up and no ticket purchased bits that were up for debate.
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 9th Nov 18, 4:45 PM
    • 93 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    MistyZ
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:45 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:45 PM
    Hi TigerOX,

    the circumstances in which people get lumbered with a PCN are many and various. Yours isn't the most bizarre or ridiculous situation I've read about here! And though it is ridiculous, I think the procedure is going to be the same as for almost every other company car PCN.

    What is striking about this situation is the number of witnesses to the waitress' reassuring words. That bodes very well for a complaint to the manager of the premises. Don't hold back! It may be as well be polite and appreciative to a certain extent but do tell the whole tale in detail with a good dollop of disgust and dismay and demand that the manager gets the charge cancelled ASAP.

    I'm sure a good complaint will sort this out. But if not, then follow the company car advice on the Newbies' thread. The first appeal to the parking company is very unlikely to succeed but that is the way to get a POPLA code. And in a POPLA appeal, some but not all of the circumstances would be relevant.

    Make the pub cancel this damn thing - that avoids a lot of work!
    Last edited by MistyZ; 09-11-2018 at 4:48 PM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Nov 18, 4:51 PM
    • 9,369 Posts
    • 12,335 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:51 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:51 PM
    Wise words above.

    The pub landlord is the one to be very strict with.

    You can also say that if this goes to court you will call on
    him or her as a witness

    Pubs are going out of business weekly now, Smart Parking
    could destroy the pub as they have done in the past.

    Insist on cancellation before this is exposed
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Nov 18, 7:03 PM
    • 20,285 Posts
    • 32,020 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 7:03 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 7:03 PM
    Pubs are going out of business weekly now, Smart Parking
    could destroy the pub as they have done in the past.
    And they don't give a flying f*ck.

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/loggerheads-mold-car-park-fines-13774891
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 9th Nov 18, 8:09 PM
    • 2,411 Posts
    • 3,370 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 8:09 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 8:09 PM
    Be interesting to know how he dealt with the problem once Smart had gone. Presumably, he still had the issue of the non pub users parking. I couldn't find anything more and the pub website is silent on parking

    Looks really nice, too. Definitely somewhere I'd fancy if I was in the area!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Nov 18, 8:14 PM
    • 20,285 Posts
    • 32,020 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 8:14 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 8:14 PM
    Looks really nice, too. Definitely somewhere I'd fancy if I was in the area!
    Go for it Neil. I think I've passed that way previously and, if I'm right, it's a stunning drive (can't beat South Africa - but not much that I've seen can). At least you won't now get a parking ticket!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 10th Nov 18, 1:42 AM
    • 9,109 Posts
    • 9,509 Thanks
    pogofish
    Nothing different about this at all. Newbies Sticky post 1 2:2 covers it completely.

    Outcome dependency in your approach is a near certainty for failure with PPCs and on a wider scale in life and needs an attitude re-adjustment.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Nov 18, 9:04 AM
    • 10,650 Posts
    • 10,498 Thanks
    The Deep
    If the pub will not co-operate, write bad stuff on their TripAdvisor/Facebook pages, they hate that.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.

    Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting)

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by in the not too distant future..
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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