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  • FIRST POST
    • Skatergirl21
    • By Skatergirl21 9th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
    • 6Posts
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    Skatergirl21
    CCJ loomimg?? Received Claim Form from County Court
    • #1
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
    CCJ loomimg?? Received Claim Form from County Court 9th Nov 18 at 1:52 PM
    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Today I have received a Claim Form from Northampton County Court for an unpaid penalty notice issued on 15/12/17 for an alleged offence on 06/12/17.

    Car Park is managed by UK CPM. I have received a number of letters since the alleged offence from UK CPM which was a notice to registered keeper asking for details of the driver and asking to pay 100 or reduced to 60, then a debt company DRP then letters from Gladstone Solicitors- all of which have been ignored.
    I received a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones on 21/09/18 and I ignored that too. Now I have received the Claim Form.

    I have completed the acknowledgement on line and said I will be defending.

    The car park in question is a private hotel- no barriers to it but it is in a quiet residential area.
    There were signs that were not seen at the time (have been back and seen them) as it was dark (approx.6.50pm) and we was literally there for no more than 10 minutes.



    As the registered keeper I have ignored all these letters

    Any advice would be welcome.
    Last edited by Skatergirl21; 10-11-2018 at 3:28 PM.
Page 1
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 9th Nov 18, 2:13 PM
    • 3,444 Posts
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    The Slithy Tove
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:13 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:13 PM
    Briefly
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    Most of your story is completely irrelevant, and in any case gives away far too much information about the driver, so I suggest to do some brutal editing.

    However now there is a chance it will become a CCJ I need to repsond and deal with it.
    I would like to go to court and speak to a Judge to explain the situation but I am not sure it will help me win the case.
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    It will only become a CCJ if you fail to defend, or you defend badly (e.g. trying to use that story to a judge, who won't be interested in sob stories, only legal points), lose, and then fail to pay up.

    Time now to read the NEWBIES sticky thread thoroughly, and more than once (there's a lot there). Concentrate on the parts around how to defend court claims. Don't miss any deadlines, or it's and instant lose.
    • Skatergirl21
    • By Skatergirl21 9th Nov 18, 2:40 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Skatergirl21
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:40 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:40 PM
    Thanks for advice. I have only acknowledged claim today so have time.

    I have looked at the Newbies link and can't find any templates of defence statements to send to the court?
    Re the driver- there is no evidence of who the driver was but the letters say that if I do not identify the driver then the keeper is liable?

    Any advice on whic line of defence i should take would be helpful or link to responses i can make?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 9th Nov 18, 2:49 PM
    • 10,582 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:49 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:49 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.

    Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting)

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by in the not too distant future..
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Nov 18, 3:50 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:50 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:50 PM
    You need to be concentrating on #2 in the FAQ

    That post covers Court claims right through from the lbcca to the hearing together with links to other resources and defences you can tailor
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 9th Nov 18, 4:46 PM
    • 3,444 Posts
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    The Slithy Tove
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:46 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 4:46 PM
    I have looked at the Newbies link and can't find any templates of defence statements to send to the court?
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    You won't find any. This is not the time for templates, as every case is different. However you will find examples on other threads, but you'll have to search. Use CPM as a search term, they come up quite often with similar cases. Check out pepipoo.com too.
    Re the driver- there is no evidence of who the driver was but the letters say that if I do not identify the driver then the keeper is liable?
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    Only if they have conformed to the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act, which it is quite probable they have not. This will be one aspect of your defence.
    Any advice on whic line of defence i should take would be helpful or link to responses i can make?
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    You don't take one line of defence, you take many. They have to pass every challenge you make to their claim. One trip on one point, and the claim fails.

    Signage will also be key, so if you haven't done so already, get photos of all the signage in the car park. UKCPM's signage is normally pretty poor, and can easily be contested that it adequately creates a contract which you have breached and are liable for the amount they claim.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Nov 18, 11:22 PM
    • 10,658 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:22 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:22 PM
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Nov 18, 9:13 AM
    • 10,582 Posts
    • 10,417 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:13 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Nov 18, 9:13 AM
    For how much are they claiming in total?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Skatergirl21
    • By Skatergirl21 10th Nov 18, 1:02 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Skatergirl21
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 1:02 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Nov 18, 1:02 PM
    Issue date is 7/11/18

    They are claiming 170.78
    Court fee 25
    Legal costs 50
    Total 245.78

    Not sure what line of defence to take. Car was parked for approx 10 mins! Would have took me longer to read the sign and understand what it was saying! Especially as it was dark.
    Last edited by Skatergirl21; 10-11-2018 at 2:51 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Nov 18, 1:08 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
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    Quentin
    Throughout here you are advised not to reveal who was driving


    You need to edit your OP (as already advised in #2) AND your post #9 to remove details of who was driving
    • Skatergirl21
    • By Skatergirl21 10th Nov 18, 1:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Skatergirl21
    How do I edit?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Nov 18, 2:45 PM
    • 10,658 Posts
    • 11,041 Thanks
    KeithP
    Issue date is 7/11/18.
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    With a Claim Issue Date of 7th November, you have until Monday 26th November to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Monday 10th December 2018 to file your Defence.

    Over a month away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Nov 18, 3:00 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
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    Quentin
    How do I edit?
    Originally posted by Skatergirl21
    Use a laptop or PC


    Click on "edit" in each post


    (You need more editing of your posts- use the third party as in "the driver" did this/ "the keeper" did that, and remove the irrelevant detail in #1)
    • Skatergirl21
    • By Skatergirl21 10th Nov 18, 4:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Skatergirl21
    Just looking at a copy of the original notice to keeper letter and it only states the road where the alleged offence occurred. It does not state the name of the hotel or their client. Also it does not state the duration of the alleged offence- are these points significant?


    As I do not have the original letters- can I request copies of all evidence/letters that Gladstones holdon file?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Nov 18, 5:02 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
    • 22,055 Thanks
    Quentin
    Your posts need further editing to remove details of who was driving
    • Skatergirl21
    • By Skatergirl21 10th Nov 18, 9:13 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Skatergirl21
    Thanks- edited.

    Am I still able to appeal the PCN when a Claim Notice has been made?

    Also can someone advise if these are a defence:

    Driver not identified
    Two different signs from different management companies in place
    Notice to keeper only says date and time of the image taken- no evidence of length of time parked there
    PCN address says Farnborough Road- car was parked in different road at side of hotel
    Does not state name of hotel so location of alleged offence is not clear

    Should I ask for a copy of the contract between management company and landowner? Who do I ask - Gladstones?

    Can the Management company claim from the keeper if there is no evidence they were the driver?

    Can I ask what are the losses to management companies client (hotel)?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Nov 18, 9:38 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,531 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    can I request copies of all evidence/letters that Gladstones hold on file?
    LOL - Gladstones hold nothing and have checked nothing. It's a robo-claim.

    Send a SAR online to the parking firm's Data Protection Officer* (NOT Gs) asking for all photos, all letters including the alleged PCN and Notice to Keeper and all data held.

    You defence will be similar to others featuring UKCPM predatory ticketing within minutes, so please search the forum for those keywords and read several similar winning or 'in progress' defences.

    Use bargepole's example concise defence you saw in the NEWBIES thread already, and add your own facts to it, about a breach of the IPC rules on grace periods and predatory ticketing.

    And as The Slithy Tove already told you:
    Signage will also be key, so if you haven't done so already, get photos of all the signage in the car park
    ...but you will already know froM the Sticky thread and bargepole's advice about what happens when/court procedures, that evidence stage comes later so you have LOADS of time to get photos in a similar bad light (darkness?).

    Also can someone advise if these are a defence:

    Driver not identified - NO re UKCPM
    Two different signs from different management companies in place - yes! Get evidence for WS stage later!
    Notice to keeper only says date and time of the image taken- no evidence of length of time parked there - NO
    PCN address says Farnborough Road- car was parked in different road at side of hotel - ONLY A POINT TO MAKE IN PASSING
    Does not state name of hotel so location of alleged offence is not clear - as above, make the point in passing, about the vague Particulars of Claim
    *see UKCPM's Privacy page for their DPO email for the SAR (boy I am bored with typing that, must put it in the sticky).
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-11-2018 at 9:41 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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