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    • whambam
    • By whambam 9th Nov 18, 1:05 PM
    • 286Posts
    • 29Thanks
    whambam
    Bus, Taxi, Cyclist Drivers
    • #1
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:05 PM
    Bus, Taxi, Cyclist Drivers 9th Nov 18 at 1:05 PM
    They all now have dash cams and cyclist have cameras on their heads can they report you if your in a bus or taxi lane or driving bad? If they do do they go to the police or elsewhere and does anyone actually ever get done like a fine?
Page 2
    • wongataa
    • By wongataa 10th Nov 18, 5:19 PM
    • 1,487 Posts
    • 936 Thanks
    wongataa
    Looking at some of the You-Tube clips posted by cyclists, it would appear that helmet cams have turned some cyclists into 'policemen' (or so they think).

    Can't help thinking that some of these 'helmets' go out simply to seek out motorists who are having an off day and post them on You-Tube. Sad really.
    Originally posted by Tilt
    The problem is someone having an 'off day' driving a motor vehicle can quite easily kill/seriously injure more vulnerable road users such as cyclists. Also, many many motor vehicles are driven badly and they can't all be driven by people having 'off days'.


    Try cycling around yourself and see how scary those drivers having 'off days' can be.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 10th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    • 5,985 Posts
    • 3,620 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    Looking at some of the You-Tube clips posted by cyclists, it would appear that helmet cams have turned some cyclists into 'policemen' (or so they think).

    Can't help thinking that some of these 'helmets' go out simply to seek out motorists who are having an off day and post them on You-Tube. Sad really.
    Originally posted by Tilt

    Some idiot in a car jumping a red light (happens so often I don't bother to even collect the clips unless it's something stupid) is one of those daft things but driving on an off day near a vulnerable road user like a cyclist can result in serious injury or even death so the camera is a vital bit of evidence should there be a collision or dangerous close pass. It is just anecdotal but when commuting with the helmet camera cars seem to hesitate a bit to do stupid things like cutting me up so if it protects me then I have no issue with it. Given cars jumping red lights cause 71% of incidents where someone like a pedestrian is killed or seriously injured following a road user jumping a red light (TfL data) then I think having some evidence is always useful to assist in a prosecution.
    • fred990
    • By fred990 10th Nov 18, 5:47 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    fred990
    The problem is someone having an 'off day' driving a motor vehicle can quite easily kill/seriously injure more vulnerable road users such as cyclists. Also, many many motor vehicles are driven badly and they can't all be driven by people having 'off days'.


    Try cycling around yourself and see how scary those drivers having 'off days' can be.
    Originally posted by wongataa
    Sadly it's just human nature to be fundamentally selfish and not give a !!!!! about others. I cycle/ride a motorbike all year round and can't have an 'off day' on two wheels, drivers can.
    It'll never change until humans wipe themselves out. Maggie apparently said there is no such thing as society, she was 100% right when it comes to motorists.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 10th Nov 18, 5:56 PM
    • 3,523 Posts
    • 2,162 Thanks
    Car 54
    It is perfectly legal in public places, such as on the roads.
    Originally posted by wongataa

    Quite so. Publishing the footage is only a problem if it is used to misrepresent the subject in some way.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 10th Nov 18, 6:00 PM
    • 4,106 Posts
    • 4,870 Thanks
    Johno100
    Sadly it's just human nature to be fundamentally selfish and not give a !!!!! about others. I cycle/ride a motorbike all year round and can't have an 'off day' on two wheels, drivers can.
    It'll never change until humans wipe themselves out. Maggie apparently said there is no such thing as society, she was 100% right when it comes to motorists.
    Originally posted by fred990
    Nice sweeping generalisation there.
    • fred990
    • By fred990 10th Nov 18, 7:58 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    fred990
    Nice sweeping generalisation there.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    You make my point nicely!
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 10th Nov 18, 8:21 PM
    • 6,108 Posts
    • 2,771 Thanks
    LeeUK
    Trucker Jay is a working class Tory. He even mentioned in a video once that he was sat on his laptop trolling "lefties".

    Says it all really.
    • Tilt
    • By Tilt 11th Nov 18, 12:32 PM
    • 3,518 Posts
    • 1,688 Thanks
    Tilt
    The problem is someone having an 'off day' driving a motor vehicle can quite easily kill/seriously injure more vulnerable road users such as cyclists. Also, many many motor vehicles are driven badly and they can't all be driven by people having 'off days'.
    Originally posted by wongataa
    I think you slightly miss-understood my point. The instances i'm talking about are motorists making minor errors which are being captured and exaggerated by cyclists on camera and then posting them on YouTube. There's hundreds of them.

    BUT on the flip side, a cyclist in London has posted a series of "Silly Cyclists" clips showing many cyclists having off days as well. Seek and you will find.


    Try cycling around yourself and see how scary those drivers having 'off days' can be.
    Originally posted by wongataa
    What makes you think i don't?
    PLEASE NOTE
    My advice should be used as guidance only. You should always obtain face to face professional advice before taking any action.
    • Tilt
    • By Tilt 11th Nov 18, 12:34 PM
    • 3,518 Posts
    • 1,688 Thanks
    Tilt
    Some idiot in a car jumping a red light (happens so often I don't bother to even collect the clips unless it's something stupid) is one of those daft things but driving on an off day near a vulnerable road user like a cyclist can result in serious injury or even death so the camera is a vital bit of evidence should there be a collision or dangerous close pass. It is just anecdotal but when commuting with the helmet camera cars seem to hesitate a bit to do stupid things like cutting me up so if it protects me then I have no issue with it. Given cars jumping red lights cause 71% of incidents where someone like a pedestrian is killed or seriously injured following a road user jumping a red light (TfL data) then I think having some evidence is always useful to assist in a prosecution.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    If you drive through the centre of London, you will see quite a lot of cyclists do this almost routinely as well.
    PLEASE NOTE
    My advice should be used as guidance only. You should always obtain face to face professional advice before taking any action.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 11th Nov 18, 7:30 PM
    • 5,985 Posts
    • 3,620 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    If you drive through the centre of London, you will see quite a lot of cyclists do this almost routinely as well.
    Originally posted by Tilt

    Classic whataboutery


    A car jumping a red light kills, a cyclist rarely, if ever, does.


    As above, TfL data showed 71% of incidents where an accident occurred with someone killed or seriously injured following a red light jump were caused by cars, just 4% by cyclists. I don't condone cyclists doing it, but car owners seem to ignore the fact that a great many drivers do it and as a result cause all sorts of havoc.
    • James2k
    • By James2k 11th Nov 18, 9:00 PM
    • 262 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    James2k
    Classic whataboutery


    A car jumping a red light kills, a cyclist rarely, if ever, does.


    As above, TfL data showed 71% of incidents where an accident occurred with someone killed or seriously injured following a red light jump were caused by cars, just 4% by cyclists. I don't condone cyclists doing it, but car owners seem to ignore the fact that a great many drivers do it and as a result cause all sorts of havoc.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Irrelevant, Its just as illegal for both, its just bikes get away with it more often due to lack of accountability (see: no registration plates)

    In Glasgow its the same,

    I see more bikes than cars do it (in my experience and i'm not talking about jumping a late amber/ very early red, but a blatant red jump.) not to mention the half pavement half road slalom that a lot of them do to try get around faster, with pedestrians jumping out of the way.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 12th Nov 18, 9:47 AM
    • 5,985 Posts
    • 3,620 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    Irrelevant, Its just as illegal for both, its just bikes get away with it more often due to lack of accountability (see: no registration plates)

    In Glasgow its the same,

    I see more bikes than cars do it (in my experience and i'm not talking about jumping a late amber/ very early red, but a blatant red jump.) not to mention the half pavement half road slalom that a lot of them do to try get around faster, with pedestrians jumping out of the way.
    Originally posted by James2k

    And again, whataboutery - I don't condone cyclists doing it, but a bike doing 15mph can stop in a couple of metres and as you say, pedestrians can get out of the way. A car will simply hit the pedestrians as it's much bigger and faster.


    Go on youtube and look for dash cam clips, you will see hundreds of drivers doing it at crazy speeds, all with the potential to kill or maim, vs a cyclist plodding along. I suspect if you were more specific, a big chunk of your red light jumping "cyclists" are delivery riders for the likes of uber and Just Eat who don't obey any sorts of laws (no lights at night etc) and they are as despised by cyclists as much as anyone.
    • James2k
    • By James2k 12th Nov 18, 10:10 AM
    • 262 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    James2k
    And again, whataboutery - I don't condone cyclists doing it, but a bike doing 15mph can stop in a couple of metres and as you say, pedestrians can get out of the way. A car will simply hit the pedestrians as it's much bigger and faster.


    Go on youtube and look for dash cam clips, you will see hundreds of drivers doing it at crazy speeds, all with the potential to kill or maim, vs a cyclist plodding along. I suspect if you were more specific, a big chunk of your red light jumping "cyclists" are delivery riders for the likes of uber and Just Eat who don't obey any sorts of laws (no lights at night etc) and they are as despised by cyclists as much as anyone.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    And again, irrelevant. And you are condoning it, or at least saying its not as big a deal.

    What if a red light jumping cyclist causes a legitimately driving car to swerve and hit something else?

    Also, pedestrians shouldn't have to 'get out the way' of the moron cyclists. Unless by extension, cyclists should 'get out of the way' of cars?
    • Rotor
    • By Rotor 12th Nov 18, 12:16 PM
    • 942 Posts
    • 1,055 Thanks
    Rotor
    Irrelevant, Its just as illegal for both, its just bikes get away with it more often due to lack of accountability (see: no registration plates)

    .
    Originally posted by James2k
    I see you're a stickler for the law when cyclists break the law ( even though, as Nasqueron has provided, the evidence suggests the risk is very low)
    Does this principled stance extend to cars exceeding the speed limit by 1-4 miles an hour as the excuse is usually that it represents only a small risk and so is tolerated?

    And on the point of jumping red lights , I see far more cars do this than cyclists ; encroaching on the cycle boxes at junction with lights is " jumping a red light" ( I include link to "ask the police" site or read rule 178 of highway code)

    This is not intended as 'whataboutery' but to highlight that many motorists apply different standards to transgressions by cyclists than to drivers even when the risks those transgression generate are tiny compared to a faster moving and 100x the weight car
    Soft Brexit - All the regulation, all the immigration, all the budget contribution but no influence , no vote and no veto. Madness
    • James2k
    • By James2k 12th Nov 18, 8:24 PM
    • 262 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    James2k
    I see you're a stickler for the law when cyclists break the law ( even though, as Nasqueron has provided, the evidence suggests the risk is very low)
    Does this principled stance extend to cars exceeding the speed limit by 1-4 miles an hour as the excuse is usually that it represents only a small risk and so is tolerated?

    And on the point of jumping red lights , I see far more cars do this than cyclists ; encroaching on the cycle boxes at junction with lights is " jumping a red light" ( I include link to "ask the police" site or read rule 178 of highway code)

    This is not intended as 'whataboutery' but to highlight that many motorists apply different standards to transgressions by cyclists than to drivers even when the risks those transgression generate are tiny compared to a faster moving and 100x the weight car
    Originally posted by Rotor
    For me its the hypocrisy, cyclists, the ones you notice at least, e.g. the militant blowhards make the biggest fuss of anyone on the road. And my point is that they should be directing it towards their own kind as much as anyone else.

    And if you would notice, i refer to busting a red light as a 'blatant' one i.e. its been red for a while and you just sail through. not a technical, wheel over the line job, nor a 'just turned red'. yes they may be both illegal too, but they have a different level of threat. As i also said, a cyclist running a light could easily cause someone else to swerve and create carnage just as much as a car doing it.
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 12th Nov 18, 9:27 PM
    • 242 Posts
    • 315 Thanks
    Ergates
    Irrelevant, Its just as illegal for both, its just bikes get away with it more often due to lack of accountability (see: no registration plates)
    Originally posted by James2k
    Dead people are irrelevant? What, exactly, are laws like "Don't drive through a red light" for if not to avoid people being killed?

    They get away with it more because.... it's less serious. Because they're less likely to kill someone doing it.

    And my point is that they should be directing it towards their own kind as much as anyone else.
    Originally posted by James2k
    They should direct "it" as much to their "own kind" who don't regularly mow down and kill people as they do at the people who *do* regularly mow down and kill people?


    And if you would notice, i refer to busting a red light as a 'blatant' one i.e. its been red for a while and you just sail through. not a technical, wheel over the line job, nor a 'just turned red'. yes they may be both illegal too, but they have a different level of threat. As i also said, a cyclist running a light could easily cause someone else to swerve and create carnage just as much as a car doing it.
    Originally posted by James2k
    Kind of like the different level of threat between a car jumping a red light and a bicycle?
    Last edited by Ergates; 12-11-2018 at 9:33 PM.
    • James2k
    • By James2k 12th Nov 18, 10:01 PM
    • 262 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    James2k
    Dead people are irrelevant? LOL, right..



    Kind of like the different level of threat between a car jumping a red light and a bicycle?
    Originally posted by Ergates
    no, nothing like that. but thanks for playing
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 12th Nov 18, 10:11 PM
    • 242 Posts
    • 315 Thanks
    Ergates
    Person you replied to:
    "A car jumping a red light kills, a cyclist rarely, if ever, does."
    You:
    "Irrelevant, Its just as illegal for both"

    How can that be interpreted any way other than you trying to claim that the fact that cars jumping red lights are *many* times more likely to kill someone is irrelevant.

    no, nothing like that. but thanks for playing
    Originally posted by James2k
    Actually yeah, exactly like that.
    Last edited by Ergates; 12-11-2018 at 10:14 PM.
    • James2k
    • By James2k 12th Nov 18, 10:17 PM
    • 262 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    James2k
    Person you replied to:
    "A car jumping a red light kills, a cyclist rarely, if ever, does."
    You:
    "Irrelevant, Its just as illegal for both"

    How can that be interpreted any way other than you trying to claim that the fact that cars jumping red lights are *many* times more likely to kill someone is irrelevant.
    Originally posted by Ergates
    No, both have the element of wilfully endangering others. Yes its less likely that a cyclist will cause a serious incident, but not to the same degree as a car being in the cycle stop area.

    So it, in the context of the discussion, means that it is irrelevant, a cyclist busting a red is just as irresponsible as a car doing it. but at almost every set of lights in Glasgow, there's a cyclist doing just that.

    no accountability, no oversight. And then you get the Lycra warriors with their go pros and plastic policeman badges.

    Anyway, don't want to upset the two wheeled commandos anymore, so you just carry on doing what you do
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 12th Nov 18, 10:37 PM
    • 242 Posts
    • 315 Thanks
    Ergates
    No, both have the element of wilfully endangering others. Yes its less likely that a cyclist will cause a serious incident, but not to the same degree as a car being in the cycle stop area.

    So it, in the context of the discussion, means that it is irrelevant, a cyclist busting a red is just as irresponsible as a car doing it. but at almost every set of lights in Glasgow, there's a cyclist doing just that.
    Originally posted by James2k
    Person A carries out action B which has chance C of killing someone.
    Person D carries out action E which has chance 0.05*C of killing someone.

    Person D is not "just as irresponsible" as person A. Especially as the person most likely to be hurt by Person D's actions is Person D.

    I work in Glasgow. I see cyclists jumping red lights, but also cars and buses. The crossings of Argyle St and Union/Jamaica St and the junction at Trongate/Stockwell St/Glassford St seem to be particular favourates of the "!!!! it it's only just changed" brigade.
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