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    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 12:16 PM
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    presurrection
    Housing benefit and apprenticeships
    • #1
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:16 PM
    Housing benefit and apprenticeships 9th Nov 18 at 12:16 PM
    Hi

    My 19 year old son has recently been offered an apprenticeship 300 miles away from home. Obviously this isn't very well paid and he would need accommodation

    My question is, would he be entitled to benefits such as housing support while he is away?

    Apologies if I haven't included enough information. I have been trying to look into this myself and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information

    Thanks
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 9th Nov 18, 12:38 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:38 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:38 PM
    Hi

    My 19 year old son has recently been offered an apprenticeship 300 miles away from home. Obviously this isn't very well paid and he would need accommodation

    My question is, would he be entitled to benefits such as housing support while he is away?

    Apologies if I haven't included enough information. I have been trying to look into this myself and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information

    Thanks
    Originally posted by presurrection
    You need to check what's in the area, if it's a full Universal credit area then it will have to be this and as he's only 19 he may not be eligible for the housing element unless it's under certain conditions.
    See this link.
    http://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/benefits/universal_credit/housing_costs_under_universal_credit/conditions_for_the_housing_cost_element/18_to_21_year_olds_condition
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 9th Nov 18, 1:10 PM
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    pmlindyloo
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:10 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:10 PM
    You need to check what's in the area, if it's a full Universal credit area then it will have to be this and as he's only 19 he may not be eligible for the housing element unless it's under certain conditions.
    See this link.
    http://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/benefits/universal_credit/housing_costs_under_universal_credit/conditions_for_the_housing_cost_element/18_to_21_year_olds_condition
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    The legislation re housing costs for 18-21 yr olds has been revoked.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/1129/made
    Last edited by pmlindyloo; 09-11-2018 at 1:13 PM.
    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 1:23 PM
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    presurrection
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:23 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:23 PM
    Thanks both. I am however a little confused.

    @poppy12345 I should have said he starts work in Jan 19. As the link you have provided contains the below, am I to assume it doesn't apply here?

    "Note that new regulations will come into force on 31 December 2018 to restore eligibility for housing costs for 18 to 21 year-olds.[1] Until the existing regulations are amended, the situation described below continues to apply."

    @pmlindyloo Do you mean that housing benefit for 18-21 year olds is not available?

    Apologies to both for my dimness in this matter. I'm really not familiar with the benefits system!
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 9th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
    To know which would be possible to claim you'll need to know what's in the area he's going to be living in first. If it's a full universal credit area he won't be able to claim housing benefit at all, it will have to be UC.
    http://ucpostcode.entitledto.co.uk/ucdate
    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 2:09 PM
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    presurrection
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:09 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:09 PM
    To know which would be possible to claim you'll need to know what's in the area he's going to be living in first. If it's a full universal credit area he won't be able to claim housing benefit at all, it will have to be UC.
    http://ucpostcode.entitledto.co.uk/ucdate
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    Hi Poppy

    Apologies, I don't specifically mean "housing benefit" as a service itself. I just mean whether he would be entitled to benefits for support with housing while he works as an apprentice.

    Thanks for the link you have provided, it requires a full postcode but we have not yet arranged a flat for him. I've added the postcode of the local JobCentre plus and it states that it is a full service area
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 9th Nov 18, 2:53 PM
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    pmlindyloo
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:53 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 2:53 PM
    It is difficult to work out what your son may be eligible since we do not know the local housing allowance for the area he will be living in or his earnings.

    What is important is that his housing costs will be assessed under the local housing allowance rules and for his age he will only be eligible for the shared accommodation rate. (You could choose the area he will live in and look up the rate on the local council website. A flat will be out of the question unless you are subsidising him. It would, most likely, have to be a shared house.

    I strongly suspect that he will find it difficult to manage on his earnings and what he will get from Universal Credit or HB (if he does not have to claim UC)

    If he is not moving to a UC area then the only benefit he will be eligible for would be HB and he will be eligible for the shared accommodation rate only as he is under 35 and is not claiming any disability benefits like DLA/PIP.

    Whatever he ends up claiming it is very likely to be a huge struggle financially while he is doing an apprenticeship unless you would be prepared to 'bail him out' financially.

    You could argue that this would be a good experience for him to learn about budgeting etc but he is young and no doubt enjoys having all the trappings of youth like a mobile phone/nights out etc.

    Plus he may have council tax to pay, electricity/gas bills/internet/water etc etc

    It might be worth looking for an apprenticeship where he could live at home - just my opinion!
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 9th Nov 18, 3:12 PM
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    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:12 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:12 PM
    Doesn't seem financially sustainable to me, unless his family can subsidise his living expenses.
    May also be difficult for him to cope socially and emotionally (leaving friends and family 300 miles away, and starting a completely new venture and entering (possibly) a different culture)

    Does the company offer a subsistence package for employees moving to the area (probably unlikely)?
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 3:13 PM
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    presurrection
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:13 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 3:13 PM
    It is difficult to work out what your son may be eligible since we do not know the local housing allowance for the area he will be living in or his earnings.

    What is important is that his housing costs will be assessed under the local housing allowance rules and for his age he will only be eligible for the shared accommodation rate. (You could choose the area he will live in and look up the rate on the local council website. A flat will be out of the question unless you are subsidising him. It would, most likely, have to be a shared house.

    I strongly suspect that he will find it difficult to manage on his earnings and what he will get from Universal Credit or HB (if he does not have to claim UC)

    If he is not moving to a UC area then the only benefit he will be eligible for would be HB and he will be eligible for the shared accommodation rate only as he is under 35 and is not claiming any disability benefits like DLA/PIP.

    Whatever he ends up claiming it is very likely to be a huge struggle financially while he is doing an apprenticeship unless you would be prepared to 'bail him out' financially.

    You could argue that this would be a good experience for him to learn about budgeting etc but he is young and no doubt enjoys having all the trappings of youth like a mobile phone/nights out etc.

    Plus he may have council tax to pay, electricity/gas bills/internet/water etc etc

    It might be worth looking for an apprenticeship where he could live at home - just my opinion!
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    Agreed! Unfortunately it's a very specific apprenticeship he has his heart set on, and there's little I can do but try to help as much as I can!

    In the area he is moving to, Cat (A) = £68.18 per week or £295.45 per calendar month according to the council website.

    Let's assume he is working 35 hours at the minimum apprentice wage and will earn around £130 per week and moves into a houseshare

    As far as I can see the area operates a Universal Credit full service - Given those estimates, do you think he would be entitled to some amount of help with housing?

    If so, if he moves into a flat, would he be eligible to the same funding (and just require additional support)?

    Thanks for all your help with this!
    Last edited by presurrection; 09-11-2018 at 3:17 PM.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 9th Nov 18, 3:44 PM
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    pmlindyloo
    You could try using this benefits calculator:

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/benefits-check/

    I have worked it out to be about £45 a week Universal Credit which means he would have a total income of about £175 per week.

    I am not totally sure if benefit calculators allow for apprenticeships (they seem to!)

    Calcotti is good at these kind of figures. Perhaps she will be kind enough to do a calculation for you.

    Basically he would get a standard allowance of £58.10 a week and an allowance of £68.18 per week for his housing costs (this is a set amount for housing costs and would be the same no matter if the rent was higher.

    Then his earnings will reduce his UC award at a taper of 63p for every £1 a week.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 9th Nov 18, 4:20 PM
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    silvercar
    Agreed! Unfortunately it's a very specific apprenticeship he has his heart set on, and there's little I can do but try to help as much as I can!
    He is 19. A lot of young people his age will be going to university and relying heavily on parental support due to the student loan system being parental means tested and the loan often not being sufficient. Is there a way you could support him in the same manner?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 9th Nov 18, 4:42 PM
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    xylophone
    I wonder whether it would be worth finding out whether he could lodge with a family on a bed and board basis?

    The employer might be able to help or you might try an advert in the local church newsletters?
    • CIS
    • By CIS 9th Nov 18, 4:49 PM
    • 10,799 Posts
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    CIS
    Council Tax would depend on what property he is resident in and whether or not he falls liable for the charge.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting Council Tax payers. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 7:20 PM
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    presurrection
    He is 19. A lot of young people his age will be going to university and relying heavily on parental support due to the student loan system being parental means tested and the loan often not being sufficient. Is there a way you could support him in the same manner?
    Originally posted by silvercar
    We will be doing what we can, however if there are some benefits he is legally entitled to that would help too
    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 7:22 PM
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    presurrection
    Council Tax would depend on what property he is resident in and whether or not he falls liable for the charge.
    Originally posted by CIS
    Thanks for your help. Is there a good rule of thumb that I should follow in order to avoid a council tax charge?

    Thanks
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 8:29 PM
    • 940 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    calcotti
    I have worked it out to be about £45 a week Universal Credit
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    I agree

    basic allowance (under 25) £251.77/month
    housing costs £295.45/month
    Maximum UC payable = £547.12/month

    Earned income £563.333/month (£130/week)

    Maximum UC payable £547.12
    earnings deduction £354.90 (63% of actual)
    UC payable £192.22/month (equivalent to £44.36/week)

    This is an average, may vary depending on frequency of wage payments.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 8:36 PM
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    calcotti
    Thanks for your help. Is there a good rule of thumb that I should follow in order to avoid a council tax charge?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by presurrection
    Certain classes of people fall to be disregarded for Council Tax purposes. Northampton Borough Council has this in respect of apprentices:
    Council Tax disregard: apprentice

    How do you qualify?

    The following criteria must apply for a person to be disregarded as an apprentice under Council Tax legislation.
    He/she must be:
    • employed for the purpose of learning a trade, business, profession, office, employment or vocation,
    • for that purpose undertaking a programme of training leading to a qualification accredited by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority
    and
    • employed at a salary, in receipt of an allowance or both (if the total is
    • substantially less than the salary he/she would be likely to receive if he/she had achieved the qualification in question);
    and
    • receiving no more than £195 per week.
    I think this will be standard across all councils but you should check the rules for particular council to be sure.

    The fact that he can be disregarded in respect of determining the amount of CT payable doesn't necessarily mean he won't have to pay a share. If he is in a share house it will depend on what is agreed with other sharers and/or landlord.

    If he is liable and is named on a Council Tax bill he would be able to apply for Council Tax Reduction which could provide some help.
    Last edited by calcotti; 09-11-2018 at 8:42 PM.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 9th Nov 18, 9:36 PM
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    CIS
    I think this will be standard across all councils but you should check the rules for particular council to be sure.
    The criteria is national, it is not something that councils have the power to change.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting Council Tax payers. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 9th Nov 18, 9:44 PM
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    calcotti
    Thanks CIS, I wasn’t sure if it was one of the mandatory requirements or not (although I did think it should be).
    • presurrection
    • By presurrection 9th Nov 18, 10:26 PM
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    presurrection
    I agree

    basic allowance (under 25) £251.77/month
    housing costs £295.45/month
    Maximum UC payable = £547.12/month

    Earned income £563.333/month (£130/week)

    Maximum UC payable £547.12
    earnings deduction £354.90 (63% of actual)
    UC payable £192.22/month (equivalent to £44.36/week)

    This is an average, may vary depending on frequency of wage payments.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    That is really useful, thank you so much for taking the time to do that!
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