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    • katie4
    • By katie4 8th Nov 18, 4:37 PM
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    katie4
    Clinical negligence
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 18, 4:37 PM
    Clinical negligence 8th Nov 18 at 4:37 PM
    Hi I am not sure if this is the right forum or not so apologies in advance


    il try to make a long story short
    husband went to a&e with severe trismus (lockjaw) they sent him away saying theyre not dentist and why hadn't he gone to his dentist, well he had and his dentist told him to go to a&e


    by this point he hadn't eaten for almost a week as he physically couldn't anyway we went to a&e of another hospital and they admitted him straight away with concerns that he had a potential mass in his neck and they were worried about his breathing and booked him in for surgery the next day! all a shock he is fine now


    but he wrote a complaint to the first hospital about being sent away and how they showed no regard for him what so ever never got a reply rang them theyre dealing with it


    rang again today and they have said they feel an apology isn't enough they feel it is more complex and have handed it over to the redress team who deal with clinical negligence


    I am just wondering what exactly that means? if anyone can help thanks

Page 2
    • Murphybear
    • By Murphybear 9th Nov 18, 4:03 PM
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    Murphybear
    Trismus not tetanus
    Originally posted by katie4
    Trismus is a symptom of tetanus.

    Both are known as lockjaw.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 9th Nov 18, 4:14 PM
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    Gavin83
    Thanks Gavin however we have not asked for compensation which is why were were confused when they said it is going redress for negligence we just had to let them know about the appauling treatment of my husband
    Originally posted by katie4
    I didn't say you did ask. However I've already said what you should do, which is:

    "You'd be better off asking for an apology (although honesty you might not get it) and a reassurance that training/notice is given that such an issue is medical and won't reoccur."
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 9th Nov 18, 4:27 PM
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    hollydays
    Tough one, there apepar to be issues on both side (from the little you have given).


    Who told you to go away? If it was that bad you should have waited untill seen by a doctor and yes you can insist upon that regardless of what the front desk or triage person thinks. They are not a doctor. Sometimes you have to push your point.


    Why did you go to a different a&e? That just sound odd. Why did you not go back to the first (or why did you choose the first anyway). It always going to be different on a different day. Why did you also wait another day? Did you return to the dentist as advised?


    Yes you have been trated bad and yes it is becuase of both cuts and idiots clogging up a&e with trivial nonsence they do not need to. But it sounds like you decided that they were right and took their advise. If you thought otherwise you would have stayed or gone elsewhere right away. Ity is unfortunate that they have so little resources and need to try to turn away poepl who do not need the service and can sometimes focus on the wrong thing. But if you knew better you did not seem to help.


    (this comes from someone who had a family member who would have died if they had not insisted on seeing a doctor at a&e when the other staff wanted to turn them away).
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    So the op should have known to ignore the doctor. Hindsight is a great thing.Not everyone has the kind of personality to do that.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 5:23 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    Tough one, there apepar to be issues on both side (from the little you have given).


    Who told you to go away? If it was that bad you should have waite untill seen by a doctor and yes you can insist upon that regardless of what the front desk or triage person thinkds. They are not a doctor
    . Sometimes you have to push your point.


    Why did you go to a different a&e? That just sound odd. Why did you not go back to the first (or why did you choose the first anyway). It always going to be different on a different day. Why did you also wait another day? Did you return to the dentist as advised?


    Yes you have been trated bad and yes it is becuase of both cuts and idiots clogging up a&e with trivial nonsence they do not need to. But it sounds like you decided that they were right and took their advise. If you thought otherwise you would have stayed or gone elsewhere right away. Ity is unfortunate that they have so little resources and need to try to turn away poepl who do not need the service and can sometimes focus on the wrong thing. But if you knew better you did not seem to help.


    (this comes from someone who had a family member who would have died if they had not insisted on seeing a doctor at a&e when the other staff wanted to turn them away).
    Originally posted by Carrot007

    I assumed from the outset that they had been told to go away by a doctor. I'm certain that neither a receptionist nor a triage nurse is qualified to tell someone with lockjaw to "go away". It's a potentially serious condition.


    I would have thought it bl00dy obvious why they didn't return to the first A&E dept. They'd already been told to go away. I'd have done the same as them.


    Of course they took advise (sic) from the first A&E doctor. I don't expect the OP and her husband to have any detailed medical knowledge and they are entitled to rely on an A&E doctor to deliver a reasonable and competent level of care.


    I also think their dentist advised it was a maxillo-facial issue and needed medical treatment.


    I don't see any failing on the part of the OP and her husband. They've acted perfectly reasonably and have been badly treated by one doctor.
    Last edited by Manxman in exile; 09-11-2018 at 5:31 PM. Reason: ADD
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 5:37 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    Post #4 states that the NHS (or NHS Litigation Authority) spent (or wasted) 1.63 bn on clinical negligence pay outs.


    I worked in Workforce Development in the NHS and often wondered if this money could be kept in the NHS if only trusts paid more attention to workforce training and development and tried harder to minimise the risk of negligence.


    Unfortunately this costs money and the four different governments I worked under don't seem to realise this.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 5:49 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    [QUOTE=peter_the_piper;75025706]Whilst this is the right answer, a written apology would be used by some to screw even more,in the way of compensation, out of them.[/QUOTE]


    This one of the reasons trusts are reluctant to issue apologies as they might be seen as an admission of liability - depending on how it's worded - and then it may not be an apology! (But in any case the OP and her husband say they only want an apology.)


    If I remember correctly, trusts essentially self-insure by paying an annual subscription to the NHS Litigation Authority and they deal with negligence cases. They nay have conditions about apologies. (I may be totally wrong and out of date about this as I retired six years ago. Arrangements may be different now).
    • Les79
    • By Les79 9th Nov 18, 7:49 PM
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    Les79
    I think you should say to them an apology is perfectly acceptable thank you very much and then sleep easy in the knowledge that you have not added to last year's 1.63bn bill for damages.
    https://resolution.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NHS-Resolution-Annual-Report-2017-2018.pdf
    Originally posted by pramsay13


    You see, I don't like this sort of post... The criticism is aimed at the wrong people. It should be aimed at the government. They are responsible for NHS funding (the quality and number of doctors etc) as well as the driving force behind initiatives like this which aim to reduce the costs of unnecessary litigation (have read the blurb in the above link and it sounds like they are on the right track at the moment).


    BEAR IN MIND that the NHS have effectively put money aside to pay people like OP to prevent court action. That's literally the point of that "1.63bn" you quote, and morally it is on par with the likes of claiming benefits or legal tax relief (if you are genuinely eligible; potentially like with OP)
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 9th Nov 18, 8:01 PM
    • 11,294 Posts
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    Pennywise
    Pennywise - you are an accountant? I've often wondered if limited liability accountancy partnerships are now a little more reckless than they would be if the partners were still personally liable?
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    Accountants must have PI insurance to cover claims, so makes no difference re negligence, compensation, etc., whether it's personal liability, limited liability etc. Just that you'd suffer higher PI insurance costs in future years if you get a claim against you which is the motivation for not making mistakes. (Also the risk of being fined by your professional institute or being struck off if your mistakes were really serious). The unlimited/limited liability issue is only relevant in case of business failure and it being insolvent, where you may personally have to cover business debts (taxes, rents, etc) if you don't have limited liability.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 8:17 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    ...Just that you'd suffer higher PI insurance costs in future years if you get a claim against you which is the motivation for not making mistakes...
    Originally posted by Pennywise

    Thank you. I think that applies to clinical negligence damages too.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 8:18 PM
    • 1,738 Posts
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    Manxman in exile
    You see, I don't like this sort of post... The criticism is aimed at the wrong people. It should be aimed at the government. They are responsible for NHS funding (the quality and number of doctors etc) as well as the driving force behind initiatives like this which aim to reduce the costs of unnecessary litigation (have read the blurb in the above link and it sounds like they are on the right track at the moment).


    BEAR IN MIND that the NHS have effectively put money aside to pay people like OP to prevent court action. That's literally the point of that "1.63bn" you quote, and morally it is on par with the likes of claiming benefits or legal tax relief (if you are genuinely eligible; potentially like with OP)
    Originally posted by Les79

    Well said.
    • katie4
    • By katie4 5th Dec 18, 3:08 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    katie4
    Hi would anyone know how long we can expect it to take to hear something? thanks

    • katie4
    • By katie4 28th Jan 19, 9:51 AM
    • 204 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    katie4
    Hi so we have finally received a letter and they have offered compensation but the letter itself contains incorrect information saying that the management of my husbands condition wouldn't have changed even if he hadn't been sent away on that day, however it did cause him and extra day of suffering and worry the antibiotics they gave him made him feel very sick and he was worried that if he was sick he could have choked on it they say that thes tablets caused improvement which is not true they had no affect on him whatsoever and they have no got any feedback from the doctor who saw him on the day who turned him away instead they have another doctor talking on his behalf, now this happened a while back now so they have had sufficient time to be able to contact this doctor and gain his reasons for what happened but they have not, they accept liability in the letter and state that should he accept the offer of compensation he cannot take the matter to civil proceedings. we both feel that he has not had sufficient explanation or apology and they are brushing it under the carpet he is going to reply stating their contradictions and errors but I was wondering if anyone would have a template or something of what he can write regarding the compensation and he does not want to accept it? Thanks

    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 28th Jan 19, 10:00 AM
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    hollydays
    I'll just step in quickly to say well done for getting this far.
    If you think it's worth it, now is the time to consult a solicitor.
    I'd have thought at the very least you'd be asking for responses to be added from the doctor concerned.
    I'm not a legal expert though.
    Last edited by hollydays; 28-01-2019 at 10:02 AM.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 28th Jan 19, 1:35 PM
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    Gavin83
    Look, I'm really confused as to what you want and despite being given advice you clearly haven't taken it. You say you don't want compensation, just an apology so write to them and say that. You don't really need a template, just a simple letter to say "Thanks for your offer but we don't wish for any compensation, just an apology and assurances it won't happen again" and you may well get this.
    • snapdoodle
    • By snapdoodle 28th Jan 19, 1:50 PM
    • 109 Posts
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    snapdoodle
    I have experience clinical negligence from a mental health team - they admitted in a complaint I made that mistakes had been made. I thought about taking legal action but decided against it, since the A&E I was sent to after I tried to end my life did in fact save it (although was not too happy to still be alive) a few years on I'm grateful for their intervention buy still hate the mental health trust for not intervening when I asked for help and making mistakes which ultimately led to my suicide attempt.
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