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  • FIRST POST
    • Allan1985
    • By Allan1985 8th Nov 18, 2:12 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Allan1985
    Car refund advice
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:12 PM
    Car refund advice 8th Nov 18 at 2:12 PM
    Hello
    I bought a second hand car but returned it the following day to the dealership as found it to have many problems . With that the dealership agreed I would be refunded within 14 days. This time has now passed and they keep making excuses to why the fefund has not been given. What can I do next ?
    Thank you for any help.
    Allan
Page 1
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 8th Nov 18, 2:14 PM
    • 12,010 Posts
    • 8,750 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:14 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:14 PM
    Letter before action (LBA).
    • Allan1985
    • By Allan1985 8th Nov 18, 2:16 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Allan1985
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:16 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:16 PM
    LBA ? Can you elaborate please
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 8th Nov 18, 2:20 PM
    • 12,010 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #4
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:20 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:20 PM
    I though the post was clear. An LBA is a letter before action, informing the person you send it to what exactly you want to happen, when and the consequences if they don't comply, ie legal action.

    Google it to find a suitable template.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 8th Nov 18, 3:44 PM
    • 6,620 Posts
    • 4,571 Thanks
    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:44 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:44 PM
    A LBA.....


    Dear Garage, I rejected a XYZ vehicle back to you on the 2nd day after purchase due to the following serious faults:


    (bullet point and be brief of those faults)




    You said that within 14 days the money would be returned to back to my bank account.
    14 days has now passed and you have failed to refund me the sum of XYZ.


    I therefore serve you 14 days notice from the date of this letter to refund me the sum of XYZ. Failure to refund me WILL result in further litigation action being taken against XYZ ltd.


    I urge you contact me on 00000000000 if you wish to arrange to pay in Cash in order to arrange an appointment to collect or you to deliver. Best times to call me on are 00:00-00:00.


    I look forward to hearing from you.


    Your Sincerely




    OP

    • Allan1985
    • By Allan1985 8th Nov 18, 3:47 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Allan1985
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:47 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:47 PM
    A LBA.....


    Dear Garage, I rejected a XYZ vehicle back to you on the 2nd day after purchase due to the following serious faults:


    (bullet point and be brief of those faults)




    You said that within 14 days the money would be returned to back to my bank account.
    14 days has now passed and you have failed to refund me the sum of XYZ.


    I therefore serve you 14 days notice from the date of this letter to refund me the sum of XYZ. Failure to refund me WILL result in further litigation action being taken against XYZ ltd.


    I urge you contact me on 00000000000 if you wish to arrange to pay in Cash in order to arrange an appointment to collect or you to deliver. Best times to call me on are 00:00-00:00.


    I look forward to hearing from you.


    Your Sincerely




    OP
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.

    Many thanks
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 8th Nov 18, 3:49 PM
    • 6,620 Posts
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:49 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:49 PM
    Many thanks
    Originally posted by Allan1985
    post signed for keep the post office receipt youll need it for court if they refuse to give money back and say you never sent them a letter.

    • waamo
    • By waamo 8th Nov 18, 5:11 PM
    • 4,704 Posts
    • 6,079 Thanks
    waamo
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 5:11 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 5:11 PM
    post signed for keep the post office receipt youll need it for court if they refuse to give money back and say you never sent them a letter.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    What if they don't sign for it?
    This space for hire.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 8th Nov 18, 7:42 PM
    • 12,010 Posts
    • 8,750 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:42 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:42 PM
    What if they don't sign for it?
    Originally posted by waamo
    Exactly. This is the main reason why you shouldn't send legal papers/correspondence by a signed for means, it gives the receiver an opportunity not to accept it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 8th Nov 18, 7:46 PM
    • 12,997 Posts
    • 10,307 Thanks
    unholyangel
    OP how did you pay for the car?

    If you paid by finance (whether finance agreement or credit card - even if you only paid a nominal amount on credit card) then contact the finance provider and start a section 75 claim (section 75 of the consumer credit act).

    If you paid by debit card, start a chargeback for credit not received.

    If you paid by bank transfer or cash then i'm afraid you're limited to chasing the dealer.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 8th Nov 18, 7:47 PM
    • 3,523 Posts
    • 2,162 Thanks
    Car 54
    Also, rather than the vague “legal action” you should tell them that a County Court claim will be made.
    • macman
    • By macman 8th Nov 18, 10:24 PM
    • 42,788 Posts
    • 18,035 Thanks
    macman
    You don't need to prove delivery: the law assumes delivery of post after 48 hours, so all you need is proof of posting.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 9th Nov 18, 4:31 PM
    • 2,552 Posts
    • 1,572 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    You don't need to prove delivery: the law assumes delivery of post after 48 hours, so all you need is proof of posting.
    Originally posted by macman
    Which is why it's best not to used signed for delivery.
    Hi there! We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 9th Nov 18, 6:14 PM
    • 12,997 Posts
    • 10,307 Thanks
    unholyangel
    You don't need to prove delivery: the law assumes delivery of post after 48 hours, so all you need is proof of posting.
    Originally posted by macman
    Worth noting that the rule you refer to only applies where a legislative act requires or authorises a document to be served by first class post is 2 business days after posting, not 48 hours.

    If there is no legislation requiring or authorising it to be send by post then you can't rely on that rule.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 9th Nov 18, 6:14 PM
    • 3,523 Posts
    • 2,162 Thanks
    Car 54
    You don't need to prove delivery: the law assumes delivery of post after 48 hours, so all you need is proof of posting.
    Originally posted by macman

    Are you sure? AFAIK the law in question is the Interpretation Act 1978, which only applies "Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post ...", not to the post in general.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 9th Nov 18, 7:44 PM
    • 6,620 Posts
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    What if they don't sign for it?
    Originally posted by waamo
    Then its marked as refused to sign, receipt is still proof it was sent and that is that is required to satisfy a notice of intended legal action. The Op could disguise it in a box (looking like a car part or promotional goodies) garages get signed for parts and mail all the time from the post man.

    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 10th Nov 18, 8:49 AM
    • 2,552 Posts
    • 1,572 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Then its marked as refused to sign, receipt is still proof it was sent and that is that is required to satisfy a notice of intended legal action. The Op could disguise it in a box (looking like a car part or promotional goodies) garages get signed for parts and mail all the time from the post man.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    No it's not. It's evidence on the traders behalf to show it was never delivered.
    Hi there! We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 10th Nov 18, 1:04 PM
    • 6,620 Posts
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    No it's not. It's evidence on the traders behalf to show it was never delivered.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    its evidence of its was delivered but rejected, theres a difference, if it wasn't delivered the tracking page would stipulate that it was due to being lost in transit etc,if its rejected the post office tells you it was rejected by occupier, plus the receipt is proof of postage. just like posting in mainstream with proof of postage as that is the minimum that is required to prove it was posted. Whether its rejected or not is moot point, the OP could prove it was posted that is the minimum that is required. This type of tittle for tattle does not fly with Small claims, "yes judge he may of sent it, but I refused it, therefore its not proof we received it" is not going to fly, its not accepted in the realms of refusal of signed for NIP's, S172's, Court Summons's, and it doesn't fly in small claims either. The judge will state You did receive the letter, its was your choice to then reject it, it is therefore evidenced it was SENT AND RECEIVED and proven WITH RECEIPT.






    OP only needs to proof of SENDING it it makes no difference to whether it was through recorded normal course of mail, as the receipt shows PROOF OF POSTAGE.


    And lets not forget 1.0 Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

    This states:-
    "7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."
    2.0 Practice Direction - Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

    "With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.
    1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
    2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-
    (a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;
    (b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.
    3. "Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

    4. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.
    5. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.
    8 March 1985


    definition of deliver
    1.
    bring and hand over (a letter, parcel, or goods) to the proper recipient or address.
    .




    So there we have it, the law states that any document to serve Only need proof of service and bring and hand to the address for the purposes of that service.


    Find some case law that states otherwise ill gladly apologise and say I was wrong until then I think your mistaken from the evidence I have seen.
    Last edited by atrixblue.-MFR-.; 10-11-2018 at 1:29 PM.

    • David Aston
    • By David Aston 10th Nov 18, 1:14 PM
    • 899 Posts
    • 592 Thanks
    David Aston
    Can I ask if the op sends it by registered or similar, would that cover him?
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 10th Nov 18, 1:27 PM
    • 6,620 Posts
    • 4,571 Thanks
    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Can I ask if the op sends it by registered or similar, would that cover him?
    Originally posted by David Aston
    He can send a mate over with it and stand back and record it, He can send it through the post office in normal mail and retain the receipt, he can send it first class signed for, he can send it special delivery before 1pm, he can hire DPD, Yodel, Parcelforce, Hermes to deliver it, He could hire a enforcement agent form a local bailiff and enformcement company to deliver it.

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