Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • nad1611
    • By nad1611 8th Nov 18, 11:15 AM
    • 660Posts
    • 284Thanks
    nad1611
    Zero Hours Contract Rights?
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 18, 11:15 AM
    Zero Hours Contract Rights? 8th Nov 18 at 11:15 AM
    Hi Everyone.
    I'm after some information about the rights (or not) of a person being contracted on a zero hrs contract.


    To give you some background. My daughter teaches English as a second language to adults, in a privately owned Language School. She works twenty four hours a week on a zero hours contract and has done for well over a year, maybe two. She also does one weekly evening class, but this is only for a couple of months in the year. Her students have an excellent pass rate and it's obvious she's great at her job by the number of people and gifts that's she's given when they leave. The evening class is normally attended by 7-10 people but when she started doing the evening class the other teachers were laughing, because so many students attended they had to move to a different class, so we know she's great at her job and she really loves it.



    She does not receive any sick pay, annual leave, nor is she part of a pension.


    She has periodically, asked her seniour about the chances of having a permanent contract and despite this seniour speaking enthusiastically on her behalf to the owner of the School, she hasn't been offered a contract. Unfortunately the seniour has now left and advised my daughter that she didn't feel my daughter would get the support and advancement she clearly deserved and her advise to my daughter was to seek alternative employment, which my daughter is now looking into.


    Well last week my daughter told us she had put in to increase her hrs to 25hrs, because she believes that that would mean she would get a permanent contract.


    Out of the blue this week she has been told that from December her hours won't be increased but actually cut to 15hrs. Obviously she can't survive on that money so will definitely have to leave.


    So I'm just wondering, I know zero hours contracts by their very nature are less secure etc, but is there anything here which is challengeable. A friend thought that she should have been entitled to sick pay/annual leave etc, I didn't think she would be. Any help would be great, even if she will ultimately have to leave. Thanks.
Page 2
    • Beverley Hillbillies
    • By Beverley Hillbillies 9th Nov 18, 1:18 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    Beverley Hillbillies
    so won’t be responding to you further as I’ve no wish to get involved in needless toing and froing.
    Originally posted by nad1611
    Well done

    I'll be glad them to leave you to them.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    This is the advice to follow
    • nad1611
    • By nad1611 9th Nov 18, 7:44 PM
    • 660 Posts
    • 284 Thanks
    nad1611
    Well done



    This is the advice to follow
    Originally posted by Beverley Hillbillies

    Hee Hee
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Nov 18, 8:04 PM
    • 5,640 Posts
    • 9,736 Thanks
    sangie595
    Hee Hee
    Originally posted by nad1611
    Showing your true colors now. I notice you've had so much more advice after your late night posting. Your troll friend didn't have anything to add to help you, did they?
    • nad1611
    • By nad1611 9th Nov 18, 8:07 PM
    • 660 Posts
    • 284 Thanks
    nad1611
    Just a little further help with this if I may. Let's presume my daughter is entitled to holiday pay and that she hasn't been being paid for it. The days she's taken off are very few because she obviously isn't getting any pay whilst she's not been working. How does this work now?


    If for example she hasn't taken holiday and/or been paid when taking holiday, can she claim back all the pay she's missed out on during this employment?


    Now let's say that she is being paid holiday pay but that it forms part of her hrly rate, this "rolled up holiday pay" mentioned above. I can see that this should not be the case and if it is then .gov says the contract should be renegotiated. Also that any apportionment should be clearly broken down on payslips. I know this isn't the case because I've now seen the payslips. All it says is;


    Basic 1
    The Hrly Rate
    Units Due(Hrs)
    The amounts and total for the year.


    Tax

    National Insurance

    Pension Contributions
    Total Tax to Date followed by the amount.


    So, what should she do about this? Is this just frowned upon or actually illegal? Thanks again.
    • nad1611
    • By nad1611 9th Nov 18, 8:10 PM
    • 660 Posts
    • 284 Thanks
    nad1611
    Showing your true colors now.
    Originally posted by sangie595

    Yep, that's me a happy little soul rolling around laughing.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 9th Nov 18, 8:26 PM
    • 1,396 Posts
    • 2,770 Thanks
    nicechap
    Just a little further help with this if I may. Let's presume my daughter is entitled to holiday pay and that she hasn't been being paid for it. The days she's taken off are very few because she obviously isn't getting any pay whilst she's not been working. How does this work now?


    If for example she hasn't taken holiday and/or been paid when taking holiday, can she claim back all the pay she's missed out on during this employment?


    Now let's say that she is being paid holiday pay but that it forms part of her hrly rate, this "rolled up holiday pay" mentioned above. I can see that this should not be the case and if it is then .gov says the contract should be renegotiated. Also that any apportionment should be clearly broken down on payslips. I know this isn't the case because I've now seen the payslips. All it says is;


    Basic 1
    The Hrly Rate
    Units Due(Hrs)
    The amounts and total for the year.


    Tax

    National Insurance

    Pension Contributions
    Total Tax to Date followed by the amount.


    So, what should she do about this? Is this just frowned upon or actually illegal? Thanks again.
    Originally posted by nad1611
    If you've already found the answer to your hypothetical question, why are you asking strangers on the internet?

    Let us know how your daughter gets on "re-negotiating", presumably from a position of strength.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 9th Nov 18, 8:58 PM
    • 39,155 Posts
    • 36,057 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    To claim the unpaid holiday pay, she'd need to know when her leave year starts and ends: it's unlikely she'd be able to claim for any previous years, and if her contract is silent on this point then it's presumed to start on the date she starts. There's no enforcement of taking / being paid for your leave entitlement if you don't claim it, which is why any previous years are almost certainly lost.

    personally I'd wait until she has a new job to go to and then submit a claim, because claiming before that is unlikely to end well.

    It may be worth joining with others in the same position to pursue this, she's unlikely to be alone (and this is where being in a union can be useful).
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern!
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 10th Nov 18, 2:44 AM
    • 444 Posts
    • 443 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    So, what should she do about this? Is this just frowned upon or actually illegal? Thanks again.
    If they aren't paying holiday pay, that's illegal.

    I think the next step is to email the employer and to try and get a written response on what the status of her holiday pay is from them.

    Then, if I were here, I'd be starting the process of taking through to tribunal, if she doesn't get a clear response. She can keep her colleagues informed too.

    I doubt they'll suddenly sack her, but in case they do there's normally not a shortage of Winter Camp ELT jobs around in December / January so employment wise, and the temp agencies are normally busy this time of year too (DM me for London ones if you want!).
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Nov 18, 7:53 AM
    • 33,472 Posts
    • 20,228 Thanks
    getmore4less
    worth a read

    King v The Sash Window Workshop Ltd
    • Beverley Hillbillies
    • By Beverley Hillbillies 10th Nov 18, 10:32 AM
    • 104 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    Beverley Hillbillies
    esting,
    worth a read

    King v The Sash Window Workshop Ltd
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Interesting, funny how the cyber "employment" specialist on here seldom refer / quote proven ET claims.

    Nad, it won't be long before the "specialist" clique brigade appear with their standard cut & paste text, move on before she becomes a target
    • nad1611
    • By nad1611 10th Nov 18, 11:31 AM
    • 660 Posts
    • 284 Thanks
    nad1611
    Thanks for all the valuable info here. We certainly have enough now to form a plan of action which as suggested might need to be done a little nearer to her leaving date, good idea about further temp work too, for the time being.




    "King v The Sash Window Workshop Ltd" Makes for very interesting reading thanks.


    Will update as and when hopefully helping others in the process.
    Thanks again.
    • Genuineguy03
    • By Genuineguy03 13th Nov 18, 2:17 AM
    • 34 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Genuineguy03
    Hmm... I think everyone missed something vital here. OP, you said they informed her they were reducing her hours. Was this done in writing? If not, get her to ask them for it in writing. Best way would be to ask them by email what they were reducing her hours too, to not raise suspicion.

    Basically by saying they reducing her hours they have unwittingly confirmed she is not on zero hours but expected to do a fixed minum amount of hours, being 24 as per now, or 15 as per when the reduction in hours occurs. That and the fact your daughter (think you said she was your daughter) has been doing 24hrs since the start of her employment would support, that under custom and practice, there was an implied contract term of a minimum of 24hrs work per week. And a tribunal will agree, if you have what they told her about the reduction of her hours in writing.

    God I love it when employers think they can get away with things, only to shoot themselves in the foot.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

123Posts Today

1,689Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I've just heard about the 8 month pregnant woman shot through the stomach by a crossbow. Its both evil and medie? https://t.co/hQTOxWiXhj

  • Major new guide... Brexit, what it means for you and your finances: M mortgages, savings, flights, consumer rights? https://t.co/SXCMG2qXwX

  • Have you haggled on the high street in the last year? If so who with and did you succeed? Please vote in this week? https://t.co/fdzmmFfA4u

  • Follow Martin