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  • FIRST POST
    • Toorop
    • By Toorop 7th Nov 18, 11:01 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Toorop
    Advice on job incident
    • #1
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:01 PM
    Advice on job incident 7th Nov 18 at 11:01 PM
    I work in a large retail store and recently had a new Manager start. One evening the Manager was on the phone discussing the store while walking around the shop floor and began bad mouthing and being critical of people and talking about getting rid them, "pushing" certain individuals out by name.

    This is a rather a new situation for me and I'm unsure of my position on whether this needs reporting or if this completely ok for the Manager to do although in my opinion completely unprofessional considering this was on the shop floor with both customers and staff to hear.

    I have requested and still waiting for a copy of the employee handbook to see what the process is.

    Considering the impact it will have on staff morale and the working environment, has any employment law been broken or is this a situation that should be dealt with internally if at all.

    Any advice welcome.
Page 2
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 10th Nov 18, 11:18 AM
    • 1,423 Posts
    • 2,803 Thanks
    nicechap
    Not that Citizen's Advice is always perfect but taken from here:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/victimisation-at-work/

    When does the law protect you?

    You’re protected against victimisation only if you do one of the following things:

    make a claim or complaint of discrimination under the Equality Act

    give evidence or information to help someone else who has made a complaint or claim under the Act

    do any other thing which is related to the Act

    say that someone has done something unlawful under the Act.

    The Equality Act calls these things protected acts.


    So somewhat different to what the internet warrior is advocating whilst being happy for the OP to be thrown under the bus for.

    I wonder what argument they lost years ago that makes them bear such a grudge.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • Beverley Hillbillies
    • By Beverley Hillbillies 10th Nov 18, 12:22 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Beverley Hillbillies

    I've highlighted the most important part of your post.

    CA is very similar to ACAS helpline, in fact, very similar to this forum, unreliable.

    My postings on this forum have been for anyone, especially bystanders, with an employment issue, is not to be reliant on the info posted on here from so called employment specialists

    I will continue to beat the post reiterating my stance, do not rely on comments underlined or giving the impression their opinion is factual, it's not, it's their opinion only, unqualified if that makes me a cyber warrior, so be it.

    Anyone wanting a factual opinion, seek professional advice, that's my stance, and will remain that way.

    Oh, btw, one only has to look at a posting on this forum from a so called "expert" where it's been pointed ou from the questioner the "experts" advice is incorrect!!!!

    Anyway, you seem a nice chap
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 10th Nov 18, 7:34 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,311 Thanks
    shortcrust
    I find your post more ridiculous

    Fairness rules, for me, yes it does.

    Prospects of losing employment for getting on the wrong side of a manager?? wtf!!!!!

    We're not in some 3rd world country here, if you want to be a "yes" person and part of the sheep brigade, so be it, that's your choice, it's my decision not to be.

    No one is employed t be treated disrespectfully, and for a union rep to post in numerous posts "it's not unlawful" is correct, however, victimisation is, strange how that member fails to mention it, I underlined victimisation is as that particular member likes underlining words within their posts, must give the some kind of "authority"

    One only has to look at history and individuals who stood up for themselves forcing change, to name just a few

    Emily Pankhurst

    Martin Luther King

    Rosa Parks

    Nelson Mandela

    So, Run along shortcrust in your own comfort zone, oh, and don't forget to collect the sheep followers behind
    Originally posted by Beverley Hillbillies
    Is this satire?!

    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 10th Nov 18, 9:13 PM
    • 271 Posts
    • 444 Thanks
    Diamandis
    Yes, whining about your manager making some comments you didn't like is pretty much the same as what happened Nelson Mandela.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 10th Nov 18, 10:32 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 686 Thanks
    Les79
    I find your post more ridiculous

    Fairness rules, for me, yes it does.

    Prospects of losing employment for getting on the wrong side of a manager?? wtf!!!!!

    We're not in some 3rd world country here, if you want to be a "yes" person and part of the sheep brigade, so be it, that's your choice, it's my decision not to be.

    No one is employed t be treated disrespectfully, and for a union rep to post in numerous posts "it's not unlawful" is correct, however, victimisation is, strange how that member fails to mention it, I underlined victimisation is as that particular member likes underlining words within their posts, must give the some kind of "authority"

    One only has to look at history and individuals who stood up for themselves forcing change, to name just a few

    Emily Pankhurst

    Martin Luther King

    Rosa Parks

    Nelson Mandela

    So, Run along shortcrust in your own comfort zone, oh, and don't forget to collect the sheep followers behind
    Originally posted by Beverley Hillbillies


    To be fair, I think you have a point. People shouldn't be victimised and in an ideal workplace respect is mutual. People on here should also ideally give out more advice on potential victimisation/bullying issues etc. But I like your overall advice to OP which suggests they should seek professional advice.




    Though you'll find that many people are "sheep" * for a very specific reason... If you aren't being a "sheep" then you are a target. It is well-documented, all of the names you mention in your post were arrested/served jail time for their campaigning.


    Whilst you'll probably not end up in prison if you oust your manager's behaviour, you could end up receiving the same sort of treatment (victimisation). All well and good talking about rights, but it is both the path of hassle and not strictly guaranteed that you'll get the outcome that you deserve (you may end up serving 27 years "in jail", for example). Maybe you will eventually, but almost certain to have at least a tiny bit of pain in the meantime.


    Each to their own in regards to that. Listen, I personally give it large with employers on the rare occasion but for the most part I'm a "Sheep" for survival purposes. There are so many low level incidents like the one mentioned by OP here that I would probably not stay employed for longer than a month if I were trigger happy.


    *PS you mention "sheep" but can I field a name? Oskar Schindler... He was a "sheep" you know.... Trying to profit from war by opening up a factory in Poland, utilising their very cheap labour force. He initially didn't care too much about exploiting people! Then the rest is history. Just because someone, to you, looks like a "sheep" doesn't necessarily mean that they are. You've just got to sort of keep an open mind about those things.
    • Beverley Hillbillies
    • By Beverley Hillbillies 11th Nov 18, 10:56 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Beverley Hillbillies
    To be fair, I think you have a point. People shouldn't be victimised and in an ideal workplace respect is mutual. People on here should also ideally give out more advice on potential victimisation/bullying issues etc. But I like your overall advice to OP which suggests they should seek professional advice
    Originally posted by Les79
    Thank you Les,

    The issue I have on here is regular members advising those with employment issues to find another job, jog on, you'll be targeted if you make an issue etc., etc,

    They post giving misleading information, one only has to look at a recent post from one of the so called "experts" to see, they posted misleading information, the "expert" has been challenged, have the responded, no not as yet,

    Some post comments under the disguise of being "qualified" in employment legislation, which has been pointed out on numerous occasions with factual evidence, their advice in wrong!!

    Rather than accept the factual evidence as being correct, and they made an initial error, they reply with controversial comments why they've been challenged

    I will continue to bang the drum and challenge their advice and advise anyone not to rely on their so called "knowledge" on employment legislation.

    I'll refer members questions to the posting where the so called "experts" have been factual proved wrong.

    Always, always, always, seek independent professional advice with employment issues, never, ever rely on those who think they know employment legislation as being correct, it's been proved publicly their not really "experts"
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 11th Nov 18, 11:04 AM
    • 1,423 Posts
    • 2,803 Thanks
    nicechap

    ....

    People shouldn't be victimised and in an ideal workplace respect is mutual. People on here should also ideally give out more advice on potential victimisation/bullying issues etc.

    ....

    Originally posted by Les79
    And therein lies the rub. We do not live in an ideal world let alone have ideal workplaces as evidenced by your own experiences.

    I'm not sure how you can make it a condition of contributing to MSE that you must give out more advice on victimisation/ bullying, what people contribute is their choice (as is yours).

    Its a shame some people have petty vendettas on here proving just how hard it is to tackle victimisation/ bullying. If only they could see their posts as others do.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • Les79
    • By Les79 11th Nov 18, 8:08 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 686 Thanks
    Les79
    And therein lies the rub. We do not live in an ideal world let alone have ideal workplaces as evidenced by your own experiences.
    Originally posted by nicechap

    That is true, however it doesn't necessarily make it right!

    I'm not sure how you can make it a condition of contributing to MSE that you must give out more advice on victimisation/ bullying, what people contribute is their choice (as is yours).
    Well, I certainly wouldn't want a condition imposed! But, as you said, "what people contribute is their choice" and that's pretty apt because:


    - A lot of the regular posters (myself included) tend to err on the side of discouraging potentially damaging behaviour, mentioning the negatives which will arise.


    - Beverley is proposing that, if OP were to say something, they may have a claim for victimisation (something which I didn't know much about, because I've never considered that approach, but would like to know more if I were in OP's shoes; it might not be the best way of doing it but interesting to discuss).


    It is probably only by virtue of their rather eccentric writing style that they've not been given more credit, but I feel that they've put forward a suggestion which at least deserves exploring. And if it indeed turns out to be a valid approach then I would personally like to see more "regular posters" using it in their advice toolkits (but then again, going back to your "what people contribute is their choice" statement; oh and Beverley you need to take stock of that as well to be fair...).

    Its a shame some people have petty vendettas on here proving just how hard it is to tackle victimisation/ bullying. If only they could see their posts as others do.
    I think the only fault of Beverley is that they are too polarised tbh... They seem to mean well towards OP with taking time out to offer advice (and challenge what they believe are misconceptions) but a bit headstrong.
    Last edited by Les79; 11-11-2018 at 8:10 PM.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 11th Nov 18, 8:24 PM
    • 17,564 Posts
    • 44,418 Thanks
    elsien
    Thank you Les,

    The issue I have on here is regular members advising those with employment issues to find another job, jog on, you'll be targeted if you make an issue etc., etc,

    They post giving misleading information, one only has to look at a recent post from one of the so called "experts" to see, they posted misleading information, the "expert" has been challenged, have the responded, no not as yet,

    Some post comments under the disguise of being "qualified" in employment legislation, which has been pointed out on numerous occasions with factual evidence, their advice in wrong!!

    Rather than accept the factual evidence as being correct, and they made an initial error, they reply with controversial comments why they've been challenged

    I will continue to bang the drum and challenge their advice and advise anyone not to rely on their so called "knowledge" on employment legislation.

    I'll refer members questions to the posting where the so called "experts" have been factual proved wrong.

    Always, always, always, seek independent professional advice with employment issues, never, ever rely on those who think they know employment legislation as being correct, it's been proved publicly their not really "experts"
    Originally posted by Beverley Hillbillies

    You appear to have a soapbox around certain issues / posters which you continue to bang on about regardless of the circumstances. In that respect your attitude is no different to those you are bent on criticising. And it's making your posts far more about you than any of the people you've taken umbrage with ever do.

    From my experience, the advice on here from the people you are criticising is to not rely on internet advice but to get proper paid for advice as and when people need it. Plus a large dollop of realism because this is the real world that we live in and people need to be aware of the possibilities before making any decisions.

    As for any comparison with Nelson Mandela and Rosa Parks? Seriously, just get a grip. Or remove yourself from your own backside. One or the other.
    Last edited by elsien; 12-11-2018 at 12:31 AM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 12th Nov 18, 8:31 AM
    • 5,700 Posts
    • 7,988 Thanks
    deannatrois
    But we are not talking major issues here like racism etc. We are talking about a stupid manager who spoke out of turn. Yes it creates a bad atmosphere, yes its very tough for the employees mentioned, but its also an opportunity for them to seek employment elsewhere if they wish or change whatever behaviours can be changed. There are times when I'd have paid good money for a chance to change a job outcome.

    There are times when getting officious is appropriate. There are also times (and this is one) when it really really isn't helpful to the employees mentioned or life in general.

    I agree, unfortunately, that a manager, even a new one, will always be listened to in preference to an employee.
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