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  • FIRST POST
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 7th Nov 18, 6:00 PM
    • 1,631Posts
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    Dandytf
    Retire in 10 years -possible
    • #1
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:00 PM
    Retire in 10 years -possible 7th Nov 18 at 6:00 PM
    Hi mser's I was asked to re post this on new thread -maybe I'not yet eligible to post via Early Reitirement thread.

    I have M.S. since 2012 approx.
    *Is it possible in financial sense to enjoy retirement from 55 which I've informed my employees DB pension scheme of*

    My concerns are:- earliest pension@60 from previous employers for a few years is only 2700 currently and frozen until 60.
    My current employers DB pension which is currently 9k approx (since 2014 or 2015 I think) -that could be possible to access from 55 if I''m correct as that's what I've chosen as retirement target .
    Then at latest stage will be gov standard pension with Nat Ins stamps paid.

    I'm basing this on hopefully paying off mortgage before 55 -though it could be close.
    Forgot to add almost 10 years non pension-stupid I never got to join a very good company pension during 90's
    MSER's is retirement @55 years possible in my example.
    Note I don't have the luxury of a large pension as I have changed career at least twice hence part pension funds -the latest being reasonably valuable and growing as was 1st pension before I changed careers.

    Last edited by Dandytf; Yesterday at 8:43 PM
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
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Page 1
    • k6chris
    • By k6chris 7th Nov 18, 6:19 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 519 Thanks
    k6chris
    • #2
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:19 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:19 PM
    Your starter for ten - How much do you need a year to "enjoy retirement"??
    "For every complicated problem, there is always a simple, wrong answer"
    • MallyGirl
    • By MallyGirl 7th Nov 18, 6:21 PM
    • 3,040 Posts
    • 8,067 Thanks
    MallyGirl
    • #3
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:21 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:21 PM
    I guess it depends on what you need to live on and what you would like as extra on top to enjoy retirement.
    The numbers above - if I am reading them right - wouldn't cover my fixed costs. You may have a very different setup in a cheaper part of the world with no expensive hobbies.
    It could be a lean 12 odd years from 55 to 67 with 9k per annum till 60 and then 11,700 from 60 to 67.
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 7th Nov 18, 6:38 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
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    Dandytf
    • #4
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:38 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:38 PM
    I guess it depends on what you need to live on and what you would like as extra on top to enjoy retirement.
    The numbers above - if I am reading them right - wouldn't cover my fixed costs. You may have a very different setup in a cheaper part of the world with no expensive hobbies.
    It could be a lean 12 odd years from 55 to 67 with 9k per annum till 60 and then 11,700 from 60 to 67.
    Originally posted by MallyGirl
    Thanks for your kind answer-once mortgage is complete, it could be possible.
    Initially I'm only considering from 55 yrs -not looking as far ahead until late 60's.

    I shall continue to pay mortgage and unsecured borrowing.
    I could also have some form of gift from family I think maybe before I'm 55.
    Also I don't yet see any positives in increasing DB as i'M +5% CONTS +5% AVC'S

    Pension fund was looking much more value when I was full time until early 2017.
    I don't intend to make this a health thread=though m.s. takes priority now hence reduced working hour etc.

    Thanks mser's your advice is very much appreciated -quite motivational

    Edited -Cannot comment on Disabilty benefits as such as no idea what my circumstances will be from next 10years, though what I did notice form the kind reply is quoted 11700 from 60 -that's equivalent to my part time earnings and I pay very little almost 0 tax -that is what I could possible continue to enjoy -again only once mortgage and unsecured borrowing is paid in full.
    Last edited by Dandytf; 07-11-2018 at 6:43 PM.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2018-Virgin Money E-saver V11 -250+50 uk pounds per month
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 7th Nov 18, 9:42 PM
    • 1,525 Posts
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    LHW99
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 18, 9:42 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 18, 9:42 PM
    Couple of comments - DB schemes are deferred, not frozen, ie there is some index linking in the years you do not draw on them.
    Current Employers DB pension - you say
    My current employers DB pension which is currently 9k approx (since 2014 or 2015 I think) -that could be possible to access from 55 if I''m correct as that's what I've chosen as retirement target .
    You can access a pension from age 55, but a DB pension would normally have an "actuarial" reduction if it is taken before the normal retirement age. However, if you are granted ill-health retirement, you can be given the pension without reduction. This usually is at discretion of the trustees, and would depend on your health when you apply.
    Have you checked on these points, because if that 9k is reduced because you take it early, your plans will be out the window.
    • Happier Me
    • By Happier Me 8th Nov 18, 7:27 AM
    • 450 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    Happier Me
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:27 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:27 AM
    I think you need to double check the values of your DB's, when they become payable and the impact of any actuarial reduction if taken early.

    The 9k DB scheme is presumably dependent on you continuing to contribute until you retire in 10 years? But if the 9k is the value of your pension at your pension schemes normal retirement age then the actuarial reductions could be significant. As an example I am a long standing member of a DB (21+years), with a pension 'in the bag' of 13,500 at my NPA (mix of 65 and 68)...if I were to take this at 55 I would receive less than 8k per annum.

    I wouldn't rule out considering ill health retirement if it gets to the point where your MS symptoms mean working part time is not sustainable. In my scheme (LGPS) there are three tiers, tier 1 would enhance your pension to your NPA (and I have known MS to fall into a tier 1 category). Part time working as a direct result of your illness may also be disregarded. Ill health is also payable from the date its granted, so potentially earlier than 55.

    The criteria for ill health is usually very strict and rightly so, but don't ignore this given your circumstances. Read up on your scheme rules so you're clear about all the options potentially available to you.
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 8th Nov 18, 7:42 AM
    • 7,282 Posts
    • 15,966 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:42 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:42 AM
    As others have said most DB schemes impose an actuarial reduction if taken early so is that 9k per annum quote based on you only contributing until 55 and drawing it then? I would suggest you track your expenditure for a year to see what you will actually need as an income in retirement. If you intend paying off all debt and your mortgage by then you can ignore these.

    If you retire early on ill health grounds sometimes they don't impose the reduction so your best bet would be to continue working until your MS impacts. My brother has MS and is still leading a relatively active life so it really depends on the type of MS you have and whether it is progressive.
    Debt free and mortgage free and early retiree. Living the dream

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 8th Nov 18, 9:47 AM
    • 6,420 Posts
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    bugslet
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:47 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:47 AM
    Erm, I suggested, not asked. I suggested because, as I said, not all the clever pension gurus read the early retirement thread and I thought you may get a better response with a stand alone thread.

    Just trying to be helpful.
    • Albermarle
    • By Albermarle 8th Nov 18, 10:56 AM
    • 199 Posts
    • 99 Thanks
    Albermarle
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 18, 10:56 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 18, 10:56 AM
    An obvious question is do you have any cash savings ?. If not then I think it will be a struggle in the years before the state pension kicks in . Especially if some one off costs crop up ( as they will) like a new boiler or the roof needs mending etc .
    Also to give another example of taking a DB pension early, mine is around 15 K at 65 but if I took it today 5.5 years early it would be less than 11K .
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 8th Nov 18, 6:38 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Dandytf
    [QUOTE=LHW99;75020256]Couple of comments - DB schemes are deferred, not frozen, ie there is some index linking in the years you do not draw on them.
    Current Employers DB pension - you say
    You can access a pension from age 55, but a DB pension would normally have an "actuarial" reduction if it is taken before the normal retirement age. However, if you are granted ill-health retirement, you can be given the pension without reduction. This usually is at discretion of the trustees, and would depend on your health when you apply.
    Have you checked on these points, because if that 9k is reduced because you take it early, your plans will be out the window.[/QUTE]
    This is most vital advice-thank's
    As M.S. is progressive then quite possibly I could be considering early pension due to ill health.
    I though it would be hospital or Neurologist signing me off from work if required -I haven't asked Pension providers-though I have called them to raise contributions and their help is very accurate and welcomig.

    I could then give them a call early 2019 and ask them some scenario's if I want to retire early with M.S -thanks I won't comment on possible reductions unti I call them.
    The 9k is current fund balance-I think it could continue growing over next 9-10 years-I chose cash/index link investments and my 5% conts is matched by employers -though 5% AVC's aren't matched.

    If as mser's kindly mention that early retirement isn;t financially possible. I could consider a return to ful time next year -though employers would;t be happy as I declined a return after 6 weeks full time shifts early 2018 (I have lots of m.s. appointments and part time is ideal for my illness)
    Thanks mse'rs next step is contact DB providers and re post.
    Last edited by Dandytf; 08-11-2018 at 6:51 PM.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
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    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 8th Nov 18, 6:50 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Dandytf
    An obvious question is do you have any cash savings ?. If not then I think it will be a struggle in the years before the state pension kicks in . Especially if some one off costs crop up ( as they will) like a new boiler or the roof needs mending etc .
    Also to give another example of taking a DB pension early, mine is around 15 K at 65 but if I took it today 5.5 years early it would be less than 11K .
    Originally posted by Albermarle
    Thanks, exactly I'm basing my early retirement on mortgage being paid in full.
    I agree that Emergancy costs -I pay factors fee's and sometimes the quality bill can be slightly expensive.
    I didn't;t answer cash question at this time -until I complete dmp -2021/22 -that would allow me to continue with some cash savings to accumulate over next 5-10 years.
    I'm also on 3 year medical driving licence and don;t expect I'll be driving in 10 years
    Thanks for your personal DB quote -that's consierdrable drop in pension funds.
    As per tonight's posts-I'll contact DB fund providers and run some questions to try and understand my possible early retirement scenarios.
    Last edited by Dandytf; 08-11-2018 at 6:52 PM.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
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    • Techno
    • By Techno 8th Nov 18, 9:59 PM
    • 1,081 Posts
    • 691 Thanks
    Techno
    Dandytf - please don't take offence at the suggestion to start a new thread. The early retirement thread started by Marine Life has been going for some time now and requests for advice tend to get lost in the general chat. It looks like you are getting some good advice on this new thread.
    If you think you are too small to make a difference, try getting in bed with a mosquito!
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 9th Nov 18, 5:14 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Dandytf
    Dandytf - please don't take offence at the suggestion to start a new thread. The early retirement thread started by Marine Life has been going for some time now and requests for advice tend to get lost in the general chat. It looks like you are getting some good advice on this new thread.
    Originally posted by Techno
    No offence taken, just my immediately home from office reply.
    Thanks
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
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    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 9th Nov 18, 6:47 PM
    • 537 Posts
    • 1,155 Thanks
    crv1963
    Hi Dandytf,

    Things I was advised to do from this site when I started out working my way through the maze of retirement planning- find out when and how much each of your current pension pots will pay; work out how much in todays figures you will need to live on. Then if pensions start before SP how much do you need to top them up.

    Breaking everything down into phases makes managing the different sums easier my example is-

    Retire 58- DB 16k + TFLS 48k
    Full SP at 67 8.5k

    Income needs 24k pa so if I was alone I'd need 9 x 8.5k = 76.5k

    So 76.5- 48= 28.5k shortfall so between now (55) and retirement I'd need to save that 28.5k.

    The above example is of course simplified as I am not on my own and Mrs CRV and her needs have to be taken into account, I just wanted to show you one way you can work things out.

    Breaking it all down into manageable chunks simplifies thinking then run the numbers maybe on here (I did) and people can comment, suggest and help your planning.

    I'd also advise look at possible benefits you may be entitled to, if you want to make an appointment with CAB for a Benefits Check-if you have had to reduce your hours due to your MS then maybe a PIP application would work- a word of advice these forms are horrendous and seek help maybe through the MS Society to complete them. PIP is not means tested and its purpose is to help with illness related costs and help the person to not be disadvantaged by their illness/ disability.

    The advice to start your own thread was wise you'll get specific advice here.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 9th Nov 18, 9:56 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Dandytf
    Hi Dandytf,

    Things I was advised to do from this site when I started out working my way through the maze of retirement planning- find out when and how much each of your current pension pots will pay; work out how much in todays figures you will need to live on. Then if pensions start before SP how much do you need to top them up.

    Breaking everything down into phases makes managing the different sums easier my example is-

    Retire 58- DB 16k + TFLS 48k
    Full SP at 67 8.5k

    Income needs 24k pa so if I was alone I'd need 9 x 8.5k = 76.5k

    So 76.5- 48= 28.5k shortfall so between now (55) and retirement I'd need to save that 28.5k.

    The above example is of course simplified as I am not on my own and Mrs CRV and her needs have to be taken into account, I just wanted to show you one way you can work things out.

    Breaking it all down into manageable chunks simplifies thinking then run the numbers maybe on here (I did) and people can comment, suggest and help your planning.

    I'd also advise look at possible benefits you may be entitled to, if you want to make an appointment with CAB for a Benefits Check-if you have had to reduce your hours due to your MS then maybe a PIP application would work- a word of advice these forms are horrendous and seek help maybe through the MS Society to complete them. PIP is not means tested and its purpose is to help with illness related costs and help the person to not be disadvantaged by their illness/ disability.

    The advice to start your own thread was wise you'll get specific advice here.
    Originally posted by crv1963
    What an amazing detailed example, thankf or taking your time to share online.
    I haven't considered benefits post early retirement.
    Currently I receive PIP-basic mobility+enhanced disability daily living.
    +working tax credits -both soon to be combined with UC-universal credit anytime from 2019-2023 for UC switch.
    I'm not currently thinking of benefits as there is such change in next few years, I'de wait until maybe until past 50 then contact local benefits team-they are excellent with these type of enquires their knowledge is beyond my expectations.

    Correct I went from Full Time after almost 26 years to Part Time early 2017-it wasn't forced, more doctors recommendation as M.S makes work more difficult too often.
    If for financial sake I were to return to full time and almost double salary-though it would be square one with working with M.S.

    I'll take time to read through your kind example and attempt to break down my current part time earnings and consider using current pip income (though I believe Universal Credit could be a drop in benefits-I'll deal with that when the switch happens

    I do run a spreadsheet home budget and can easily take my living costs from the Excel file -possibly taking away Car costs and remove mortgage costs and unsecured lending -as I'm almost certain these can be cleared pre -55yrs.
    Quite possibly I'de need to consider dropping Digi t.v. Subs to keep monthly costs down.
    Hopefully I get some sense of making early retirement possible rather than impossible.
    Last edited by Dandytf; 09-11-2018 at 10:02 PM.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2018-Virgin Money E-saver V11 -250+50 uk pounds per month
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 10th Nov 18, 10:16 AM
    • 537 Posts
    • 1,155 Thanks
    crv1963
    Hopefully I get some sense of making early retirement possible rather than impossible.
    Originally posted by Dandytf
    We looked at all of our outgoings and trimmed some of them, we changed energy suppliers, car insurances, use free view- there's enough tv available to keep us amused although I know some really have "must watch" channels through pay to view packages.

    We don't skimp on hobbies, but neither are they extravagant in our view. Our biggest expense is our dogs, having a diabetic dog with no insurance is not cheap!

    How old are you? What age would you like to retire? How much do you need to live on? What age is your spouse? What is their pension provision? What age do they want to retire? Have you any must do plans for the future? Don't write off having a car- they provide freedom of choice, and give independence. Can you create a second income stream/ sell your junk(treasured stuff in the loft)?

    With some clear goals and a time frame you can then test some plans, everyone has their own "number" but a clear idea of your own number is best. Read "what's your number thread", you've already started the early retirement wannabe thread.

    Time spent planning (and other things) led me to change job, look at life in general, bring forward some spending and push back other spending.

    Good luck.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 11th Nov 18, 1:57 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Dandytf
    I think you need to double check the values of your DB's, when they become payable and the impact of any actuarial reduction if taken early.

    The 9k DB scheme is presumably dependent on you continuing to contribute until you retire in 10 years? But if the 9k is the value of your pension at your pension schemes normal retirement age then the actuarial reductions could be significant. As an example I am a long standing member of a DB (21+years), with a pension 'in the bag' of 13,500 at my NPA (mix of 65 and 68)...if I were to take this at 55 I would receive less than 8k per annum.

    I wouldn't rule out considering ill health retirement if it gets to the point where your MS symptoms mean working part time is not sustainable. In my scheme (LGPS) there are three tiers, tier 1 would enhance your pension to your NPA (and I have known MS to fall into a tier 1 category). Part time working as a direct result of your illness may also be disregarded. Ill health is also payable from the date its granted, so potentially earlier than 55.

    The criteria for ill health is usually very strict and rightly so, but don't ignore this given your circumstances. Read up on your scheme rules so you're clear about all the options potentially available to you.
    Originally posted by Happier Me
    I'm going to try some essential outgoing this afternoon.
    The mentioned 9k is current DB balance.
    I can run calculator and advise expected value from 55 upto 65
    Projected balances of course be it low medium or high returns on retirement.
    I usually use medium to get an idea.

    Then I'll take some info from current home budget for outgoings.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2018-Virgin Money E-saver V11 -250+50 uk pounds per month
    • atush
    • By atush 11th Nov 18, 2:26 PM
    • 17,265 Posts
    • 10,833 Thanks
    atush
    I shall continue to pay mortgage and unsecured borrowing.
    I didn't;t answer cash question at this time -until I complete dmp -2021/22
    TBH, until these are paid and an emergency fund built to at least 3 months outgoings (pref more) then you really cannot contemplate early retirment on any other than ill health grounds.

    But the planning you can do. But as said above, unless you have a cash fund it will be too tight.
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 11th Nov 18, 4:17 PM
    • 1,631 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Dandytf
    TBH, until these are paid and an emergency fund built to at least 3 months outgoings (pref more) then you really cannot contemplate early retirment on any other than ill health grounds.

    But the planning you can do. But as said above, unless you have a cash fund it will be too tight.
    Originally posted by atush
    Thanks it is due to ill health with m.s.
    The 10 years could be dependent on how fast m.s. progresses.
    I want to get an idea if I can make retirement possible as I cannot work full time anymore.
    Unsecured should be cleared 2022/23
    Mortgage -depends on which rates are as my next fix expires mid 2019.
    If I could make 10 year retirement possible then I,ll switch to 10 year fix mortgage and over pay in later years to ensure it's cleared before I retire@55
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2018 8840 paid. 60% approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2018-Virgin Money E-saver V11 -250+50 uk pounds per month
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