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  • FIRST POST
    • byrnes8819
    • By byrnes8819 7th Nov 18, 12:31 PM
    • 2Posts
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    byrnes8819
    Wrong Lease Plan for Purchase of Flat
    • #1
    • 7th Nov 18, 12:31 PM
    Wrong Lease Plan for Purchase of Flat 7th Nov 18 at 12:31 PM
    Hi,

    First time poster, have read many similar articles on this forum but haven't quite managed to find the answer I need, hopefully someone can help put my mind at ease.

    My partner and I are in the process of buying a flat with share of freehold. We are at the end stages, close to giving the go ahead for exchange, and we are happy with almost all aspects of the purchase.

    The issue we have is that in the lease we have been provided, the plan is for the incorrect flat (wrong floorplan and garden), and does not match the title plan from Land Registry (which is for the flat we wish to purchase). Apparently the Vendor cannot find his original copy of the lease with the correct lease plan, and Land Registry does not have a copy.

    We have been told that as the LR title plan would have been drawn up from the original lease plan, there should not be any issues, and if the original lease were to appear it would confirm what the LR have. We are getting Indemnity Insurance to cover this but it states in the "What is not insured" section that - challenges to the title of any property/land not specified on the policy schedule. Our solicitor confirmed that there is a remote possibility that in the future we could be told that we don't actually own the flat and garden we think we do. However he seems to think this is a none issue.

    Has anyone had a similar experience?
    Part of me thinks I should be concerned but the other part thinks that logically the lease was drawn up in 2005 and signed by the current vendor, before passing details to the LR. Surely the vendor would not have signed for a different flat and be owning the incorrect property all these years?

    Any input offered would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 8th Nov 18, 12:46 AM
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    Tom99
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 12:46 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 12:46 AM
    Does the freeholder not have a copy?
    Is the lease description of the demise also wrong? Ie the lease is for a different flat?
    Does the title entry and plan at Land Reg for the wrong flat look ok?
    Does the freehold title have a 'schedule of notices of leases' and do both your flat and the wrong flat appear to be correctly described on that schedule?
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 8th Nov 18, 8:27 AM
    • 11,473 Posts
    • 13,245 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:27 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:27 AM
    Our solicitor confirmed that there is a remote possibility that in the future we could be told that we don't actually own the flat and garden we think we do. However he seems to think this is a non issue.
    Personally I find a massive disconnect between the first sentence and the second one. It's a "non issue" that you could be told you don't own the flat ??
    Are you buying with a mortgage .. I'm surprised the lender would go ahead.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 8th Nov 18, 8:43 AM
    • 2,485 Posts
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    Alter ego
    • #4
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:43 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:43 AM
    I'd be getting a decent solicitor! You are not playing Monopoly!
    Loose means not tight, Lose means something is lost, simples no?
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 8th Nov 18, 9:24 AM
    • 38,136 Posts
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    silvercar
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:24 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:24 AM
    Ask the Land Reg rep on here by posting in this thread:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5685941
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debate House Prices & the Economy, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Mortgages and Endowments, In My Home incl DIY, Overseas Holidays & Student boards.
    I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Nov 18, 9:28 AM
    • 9,075 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:28 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:28 AM
    the lease is for a different flat?
    Originally posted by Tom99
    That's also my suspicion. If you have a lease to hand for another flat in the block it's (generally) safe to assume that its terms will be similar, but obviously the demise will be different. If the registered title is correct then I'm not sure there's actually an issue.
    • byrnes8819
    • By byrnes8819 8th Nov 18, 9:49 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    byrnes8819
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:49 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:49 AM
    Thank you all for the quick responses, I wish I would have posted here earlier, as this particular issue has been ongoing for several weeks already.

    However in a turn of events this may be a non issue, as after being asked the pay for indemnity insurance, or possibly a variance of deed (I think that's what it's called), the vendor has found the original lease for the flat which has the correct (and matching LR) plan, and we should be receiving this today.

    Personally I find a massive disconnect between the first sentence and the second one. It's a "non issue" that you could be told you don't own the flat ??
    Are you buying with a mortgage .. I'm surprised the lender would go ahead.
    Maybe I worded this differently to exactly how the solicitor worded it, in Legalese. But this had been the core of my confusion, in my understanding this remote possibility should make the whole purchase a show stopper. Yet our solicitor never advised us on it being overly serious, or that we should reconsider, and simply went ahead with indemnity insurance. Also, yes we are buying with a mortgage, and again our solicitor has not stated this would be a problem.

    I'll post here again with further information, if the lease we receive still has issues. Thanks again for all the quick responses!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Nov 18, 12:33 PM
    • 45,893 Posts
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    G_M
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 12:33 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 12:33 PM

    My partner and I are in the process of buying a flat with share of freehold.
    Originally posted by byrnes8819
    Who owns the freehold?

    Is it shared by all the leaseholders (flat owners) in the building?
    in their individual names?
    In the name of a company in which they have shares?


    The company director or other joint freeholders might have leases (copies or originals).
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 9th Nov 18, 5:43 PM
    • 2,485 Posts
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    Alter ego
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 5:43 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 5:43 PM
    Who owns the freehold?

    Is it shared by all the leaseholders (flat owners) in the building?
    in their individual names?.
    Originally posted by G_M
    That is not possible.
    Loose means not tight, Lose means something is lost, simples no?
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 9th Nov 18, 6:14 PM
    • 3,008 Posts
    • 2,064 Thanks
    Tom99
    That is not possible.
    Originally posted by Alter ego

    The legal title can be held by up to 4 joint owners I think.
    If there are over 4 owners then the up to 4 legal owners can own it held in trust for as many beneficial owners as you like.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 10th Nov 18, 9:07 AM
    • 11,473 Posts
    • 13,245 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    However in a turn of events this may be a non issue, as after being asked the pay for indemnity insurance, or possibly a variance of deed (I think that's what it's called), the vendor has found the original lease for the flat which has the correct (and matching LR) plan, and we should be receiving this today!
    Originally posted by byrnes8819
    Who are you buying from that apparently has a number of different leases they can choose from at random and get confused as to which is which ?
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
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