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  • FIRST POST
    • Bblyt
    • By Bblyt 6th Nov 18, 7:22 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Bblyt
    Lease company/insurance treating me unfairly after my car was destroyed.
    • #1
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:22 PM
    Lease company/insurance treating me unfairly after my car was destroyed. 6th Nov 18 at 7:22 PM
    Hi guys,

    New to the forums and looking for advice! It’s a little bit of a long story so my apologies for the essay....

    Last New Year’s Eve my 6 week old lease car along with 1400 others was destroyed in a huge inferno at the Liverpool Echo arenas car park. The whole event was incredibly distressing - we thought it was a terrorist attack at first! Thankfully no one was hurt.

    My car is leased through an NHS scheme and comes with fully comprehensive insurance included in the package.

    Lots of people who were there that night formed a Facebook group and it seemed insurers were putting this down as a non fault claim and waivering all excess fees due to it being a ‘catastrophic event’ and sorted out quite quickly.

    In my case it has been slightly different. I continued paying the fees for another 4 months for a car which no longer existed in return for using a hire car - I had no idea that with most insurance companies that if your car is destroyed or written off you have no right to a courtesy car..... I was happy to continue paying this until a new car was sorted out for me.

    4 months later I got a replacement car and was made to sign back to the beginning of a new 3 year contract. With no further correspondence I thought the matter was put to bed.

    A couple of weeks ago the lease company has written me a demanding letter and invoice requesting the money for the insurance excess.

    I replied explaining that I though the matter had been put to bed and that were they not following suit with at least 25 other insurance companies who I know have waivered these fee’s?

    I have flatly been told no and that if I don’t pay they will approach my employers for the money. I have requested someone in managment get in touch with me to explain the disparity in my case but to no avail.

    Can anyone help? It’s a few hundred quid (which is still a lot of money) but it’s the principle of it �� I’m at my wits end. This hugely stressful situation is still going on 11 months later
    Last edited by Bblyt; 06-11-2018 at 7:25 PM.
Page 1
    • Zorillo
    • By Zorillo 6th Nov 18, 7:50 PM
    • 427 Posts
    • 280 Thanks
    Zorillo
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:50 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:50 PM
    Your not being treated unfairly and you agreed to the excess when you arranged the insurance.

    What makes it appear unfair is the short-sighted decision by some insurers to waive the excess in circumstances that didn't merit it. That's created uncertainty, confusion, and people claiming unfair treatment when other insurers don't follow suit.
    Last edited by Zorillo; 06-11-2018 at 8:01 PM.
    • Bblyt
    • By Bblyt 6th Nov 18, 7:56 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bblyt
    • #3
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:56 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:56 PM
    Hi thanks for your reply.

    I totally understand but Iím sure you can see where my frustration lies....

    Apparently (with cctv evidence) the fire started in one car. Now obviously their cover wonít cover the millions of pound damage that ensued....

    So what happens in cases where you have an incident with an uninsured driver? Are you still liable for excess fees then? Genuine question - Iím not 100% clues up on how it works.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 6th Nov 18, 7:58 PM
    • 1,729 Posts
    • 1,477 Thanks
    Carrot007
    • #4
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:58 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Nov 18, 7:58 PM
    So what happens in cases where you have an incident with an uninsured driver? Are you still liable for excess fees then? Genuine question - Iím not 100% clues up on how it works.
    Originally posted by Bblyt


    Whatever you sign up for.


    Some people get insurance based on how cheap it is.


    Some people buy it on how likely the company are to pay out in the event of an indicent.


    The time to read reviews about a company was before signing up.
    • Zorillo
    • By Zorillo 6th Nov 18, 8:04 PM
    • 427 Posts
    • 280 Thanks
    Zorillo
    • #5
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:04 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:04 PM
    Hi thanks for your reply.

    I totally understand but I’m sure you can see where my frustration lies....

    Apparently (with cctv evidence) the fire started in one car. Now obviously their cover won’t cover the millions of pound damage that ensued....

    So what happens in cases where you have an incident with an uninsured driver? Are you still liable for excess fees then? Genuine question - I’m not 100% clues up on how it works.
    Originally posted by Bblyt
    Unless your insurer is one that advertises an Uninsured Driver Promise (plenties don't, although it is currently quite common) then yes you would pay your excess if you were hit by an uninsured driver.

    As I recall, the fire was thought to start through mechanical failure rather than the negligence of the owner, so the owner wouldn't be liable for the fire. Presumably, it can't be proven that the manufacturer of he vehicle was liable either.

    And yes I do see were your frustration lies. I blame the waiving insurers for that rather than your insurer.
    • Bblyt
    • By Bblyt 6th Nov 18, 8:05 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bblyt
    • #6
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:05 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:05 PM
    We are not told nor given the details of the car insurance with the NHS lease scheme. We are only told it is fully comprehensive and is included with the cost of your car....I always thought that fully comprehensive meant exactly that and that they all followed the same code of conduct.

    I just find it hard to believe a huge organisation such as the NHS is using companies that donít follow this and it should be clearly advertised at the point of sale. Iíll keep fighting it as I feel it is grossly unfair but itís a hard lesson learned. After 8 years of custom they wonít be getting thoausands of pounds from me again.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 6th Nov 18, 8:30 PM
    • 2,431 Posts
    • 4,037 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #7
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:30 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:30 PM
    After 8 years of custom they wonít be getting thoausands of pounds from me again.
    Originally posted by Bblyt

    So you can find the same car/terms on the open market with your choice of insurance company for less can you ? Good luck with that
    • Bblyt
    • By Bblyt 6th Nov 18, 8:43 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bblyt
    • #8
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:43 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:43 PM
    The car dealership brand where my car is from is offering better prices with insurance from the big companies who treat people with compassion.

    I didnít know any different when I signed up for my Ďcompanyí lease car and assumed I was getting the best deal for the greater good for the employees....

    Like I say, hard lesson learned. All for something which was totally not my fault. I would rather pay more per month to a large and reputable company where there is customer contact and support.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 6th Nov 18, 10:52 PM
    • 3,035 Posts
    • 2,557 Thanks
    Aretnap
    • #9
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:52 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:52 PM
    Hi thanks for your reply.

    I totally understand but Iím sure you can see where my frustration lies....

    Apparently (with cctv evidence) the fire started in one car. Now obviously their cover wonít cover the millions of pound damage that ensued....

    So what happens in cases where you have an incident with an uninsured driver? Are you still liable for excess fees then? Genuine question - Iím not 100% clues up on how it works.
    Originally posted by Bblyt
    Your excess is not a punishment for being too blame for an accident. It's just the part of any claim that your insurance does not cover. The exact nature of the claim doesn't really matter. Your fault, someone else's fault, nobody's fault in particular, it matters not - your excess is payable regardless. If you read your policy documents they will define your excess as "the part of any claim which you must pay yourself" or some such form of words and won't include any qualifier about "unless it wasn't your fault" - what made you assume that there was any such qualifier?

    If someone else is to blame for the accident what you can do is claim your excess from them (or their insurer if they have one) along with any other losses you've suffered which you haven't claimed for from your own policy. This does depend on the being an at fault person, finding them, proving they were at fault, and then having the means to pay any money you successfully claim from them.

    So yes, being hit by an uninsured/untraced driver, your car catching fire, your car being stolen or your car being hit by a meteorite are all situations where you would have to pay your excess and have little or no chance of claiming it back, despite not being at fault. If that seems unfair, you red to choose a policy with a lower excess, or no excess at all.

    A few insurers do promise to waive your excess in the case of being hit by an uninsured driver; this is a marketing gimmick on their part rather than a fundamental part of the purpose of an excess. And I imagine in a large high profile incident like this one some insurers might offer to waive the excesses, essentially for PR reasons. That doesn't mean that other insurers are under a moral or legal obligation to do the same.
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 7th Nov 18, 6:01 AM
    • 3,630 Posts
    • 2,995 Thanks
    BoGoF
    So if you're buying insurance yourself you are hoping to find a policy that has no excesses whatsoever? Good luck with that and if you do I'm sure you will change your mind when you see the price difference.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 7th Nov 18, 7:24 AM
    • 5,185 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    csgohan4
    OP stop being so bitter with having to pay excess, if you didn't read your own Terms and conditions or find insurance that suited you, you only have yourself to blame.


    I can see you put a lot of 'you thought or I assumed'. So you didn't read it then? It's the same with car insurance companies, say Adrian flux who charge a lot for mid term amendments/cancelations, you see a lot of people complaining about them, because they didn't bother reading the T+C's


    Pay your excess or try and sue the car park for your excess, your choice.
    Last edited by csgohan4; 07-11-2018 at 7:27 AM.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Nov 18, 7:45 AM
    • 37,945 Posts
    • 22,058 Thanks
    Quentin
    We are not told nor given the details of the car insurance with the NHS lease scheme. We are only told it is fully comprehensive and is included with the cost of your car....I always thought that fully comprehensive meant exactly that and that they all followed the same code of conduct. .....
    Originally posted by Bblyt
    Your employer has let you down.

    There's no such thing as "fully" comprehensive insurance!

    If you have a union they may take this up for you.

    Or did you make a mistake thinking this??
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 7th Nov 18, 9:41 AM
    • 431 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    bigisi
    Trying to blame other people for your own naivety can only work for so long. It's your fault you:

    thought that fully comprehensive meant exactly that and that they all followed the same code of conduct.
    and

    didn’t know any different when I signed up for my ‘company’ lease car and assumed I was getting the best deal for the greater good for the employees
    And if you think there are insurance companies who:

    treat people with compassion
    You've still got a lot to learn!

    Next time, read what you are agreeing to, don't sign if you don't like it.
    • Bblyt
    • By Bblyt 7th Nov 18, 12:41 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bblyt
    I was merely saying that in future then this event will have an impact on who I choose to go with rather than going down the route of having a packaged lease again.
    • Bblyt
    • By Bblyt 7th Nov 18, 12:46 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bblyt
    Iíll pay it if I have to. Iím just trying to see if I can get it waivered like 100ís of others did - Iím sure most people would at least try if they knew there was a possibility.

    We donít get given the insurance details with the lease cars (not even the name of the insurance company we are with)

    Hard lesson learned!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Nov 18, 2:52 PM
    • 37,945 Posts
    • 22,058 Thanks
    Quentin
    Iíll pay it if I have to......!
    Originally posted by Bblyt
    Earlier in the thread you admitted ignorance over this issue


    Your excess isn't covered by your insurance


    If you don't pay it expect to be pursued for it like any other unpaid bill!
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 9th Nov 18, 10:42 AM
    • 1,435 Posts
    • 206 Thanks
    littlerock
    A lot of very unsympathetic replies here I must say. Some posters here certainly lack compassion.
    • Zorillo
    • By Zorillo 9th Nov 18, 11:44 AM
    • 427 Posts
    • 280 Thanks
    Zorillo
    What use would our sympathy be to the OP?
    Last edited by Zorillo; 09-11-2018 at 11:48 AM.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 9th Nov 18, 7:17 PM
    • 5,185 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    csgohan4
    A lot of very unsympathetic replies here I must say. Some posters here certainly lack compassion.
    Originally posted by littlerock
    Truth hurts doesn't it?
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • Dangermac
    • By Dangermac 10th Nov 18, 12:02 PM
    • 452 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Dangermac
    Most Comprehensive Motor Policies in the UK carry an excess (policyholder contribution).

    Some policies/insurers may waive the excess in certain situations, but that's fairly unusual. If the policy has an excess, typically, it's payable.

    You could try and recover the excess from the person/car that started the fire, but under English Law, you are likely to have to prove negligence. That's how English (Common Law) Law works.

    I'm struggling with the OP's annoyance that the insurer are not waiving the excess. Maybe some insurers have (waived the excess) for this specific fire, but I would argue that this is a PR stunt, albeit advantageous to some of the victims. There is no obvious reason other than PR for the excess to be waived.

    If the OP has a policy excess, it shouldn't come as a surprise that this is payable.

    And, as a slight side issue, if the only out-of-pocket cost is the excess, I feel that that is a good result for the OP since lease cars have the potential for insurance shortfalls because of the interest costs.

    Going forward, if the OP is unhappy about paying an excess, shop around. But few policies these days do not carry an excess.

    Of course, if the group policy documents did not show an excess, by all means, complain to the FOS. But don't complain about the insurer having the cheek to ask for the excess if this is part of the policy and this was previously communicated.

    DM
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