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  • FIRST POST
    • denrob
    • By denrob 3rd Nov 18, 3:07 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 5Thanks
    denrob
    Paypal resolution bias PLEASE HELP..!
    • #1
    • 3rd Nov 18, 3:07 PM
    Paypal resolution bias PLEASE HELP..! 3rd Nov 18 at 3:07 PM
    I read with great interest the comments on a closed thread regarding paypal. Good advice. However I do not have a hypothetical situation going. Mine is real. I was hoping for your help. Anything anyone can offer will be received with grateful thanks...
    .
    1. I sold, on ebay, a sealed rare triple vinyl LP set by Abba. Still sealed and brand spanking new. Nice and clean, no creases and no damage. Money was received and item sent and received. As it was a high end item (£200) I photographed it back and front as well as the package itself prior to mailing. Mailed with full insurances and tracking.

    2. Item was received and I left positive feedback for the buyer thinking all was well...

    3. The following day the buyer opened a case with EBAY claiming misrepresentation, that the item was not as described. (Apparently I cannot post links here so if you search ebay for the following under "closed auctions" you will see the item as it was advertised - ABBA LIVE WEMBLEY 3 LP SET "STILL SEALED FROM NEW" ...

    4. I answered in all candour and the buyer closed the claim stating: "I should have asked more questions. My fault." Case closed. (Absolutely no mention of any damage at this stage and also there was never any "questions" asked. The only communication between the buyer and myself was from me to send an image of the package he would receive the following day)...

    5. The same day the ebay claim was closed by the buyer, another claim was opened with paypal.

    6. The buyer is now stating - with paypal - misrepresentation AND that the item was damaged. (Bear in mind there was no mention of any damage with the ebay claim).

    7. The buyer has sent pictures which show a damaged spine, a serious fold on the front cover and a serious fold on the back cover (The item is a triple set so it folds out...)

    8. ALSO... the buyer states in an email to eBay that he saw this "damage" through the sealed shrink wrap and then went on and opened the item anyway. (It is now worth a fraction of what it sold for and I know it was perfect).

    9. At this stage, seeing this so called damage through the shrink wrap, any logical thinking human would immediately report this as arriving damaged and NOT open the item but rather photograph the package AND the item still sealed in its shrink wrap and send this information to the seller (me) - immediately. The seller (me) would have immediately asked for the item to be photographed in the condition it was received, to include the packaging, for the item to be returned and I could then have made a valid claim with the Post Office.
    Does this make sense so far?

    10. Despite sending this information and photographs to Paypal as well as providing proof of the cancelled claim with eBay and the buyers response of “I should have asked more questions, my fault” – (eBay case then closed by buyer) – Paypal are still siding with the buyer on this despite every contradiction being proven.

    11. Paypal have still sided with the buyer despite my notifying them of everything... including MY pictures,. They have instructed the buyer to return the item to me and it is apparently in the post now.

    12. Paypal have placed the purchase price on hold in my account with them, to be refunded to the buyer upon receipt of the returned item. They also state I must refund this buyer all shipping costs.

    13. Strange but I called Paypal and they instructed me that there was an appeal button on the claim but when I look, there isn’t. All there is - is a button that says I have received the returned item and that they will issue the refund.

    I feel certain I am being conned and that this buyer. I KNOW there was NO damage to the item. I mean, as I explained to paypal, if this "damage" could be seen through the sealed shrink wrap, then why did the buyer go ahead and open the item? Why not notify me that the item arrived damaged, photographed the package and then the item so I could immediately refund and make a claim with the Post Office. It was sent tracked and fully insured for this very reason....

    Why open a claim with ebay using one excuse... then close it claiming it was his fault - though NOT mentioning any damage - while at the same time opening another claim with paypal and adding this so called damage?
    Now this item is supposedly in the mail... what do I do? Do I accept it or simply return to sender?

    I have already cancelled my credit cards on file with ebay and paypal so they will NOT get any further cash from my account (they say I have to pay the buyer extra for mailing the item back) though I am loathed to accept this return. I KNOW it wasn't damaged and I KNOW I was thorough in the auction description. I always am.

    ANY advice to this problem greatly appreciated

    Rob in the UK xxx

    Ps, I wish I knew how to upload my pictures so you could all see the contradictions...
Page 2
    • bris
    • By bris 9th Nov 18, 5:54 PM
    • 8,071 Posts
    • 7,056 Thanks
    bris
    Whilst its frustrating for you, you are dealing with Paypal.


    Bottom line is photos prove nothing, you can take all the photos you want but that doesn't prove you sent the item in the photos.


    You see sellers can be just as big crooks and liars as buyers so who do Paypal believe.


    They err on the side of caution and refund, almost every time and all you get for complaining to hard is your account closed.
    • Daveym79
    • By Daveym79 10th Nov 18, 3:28 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Daveym79
    I've often wondered how people are prepared to sell the likes of rare coins on ebay. I read that some coins especially limited edition or wrongly printed fetch upwards of £1000 and more recently a 50p sold for £3000 or so we are lead to believe if you read everything newspapers print. I just wonder how sellers of such items deal with fraud in cases like this as a seller could quite easily say they have just received a standard 50p coin and suddenly they are a couple of grand richer through getting a refund. There should be some regulated courier company that ebay/paypal deal with for items over a certain valuable whereby for example goods have to be opened infront of a courier and checked then courier reports back to paypal so a claim for item not as described can't be opened. (obviously this doesn't stop items that might not be in a workable state but surely something has to be implemented soon as this kind of fraud seems to be on this rise). It must also happen on the highstreet whereby someone has an exisiting item that doesn't work, buys the same one brand new then returns their original item that wasn't working to receive a refund.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Nov 18, 5:23 PM
    • 12,826 Posts
    • 8,678 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    It happens. It doesn't happen too many times to the same seller, but sellers need to know the risks, take as many precautions as they can and build that risk into their business model.

    What you are suggesting just isn't going to happen. A courier is nothing to do with the sale/purchase. They have tight margins and they are not going to stand still while you open a package and then testify it was ab or c. A courier cannot testify if an item works unless it's opened, taken into your house, the appropriate batteries or power pack charged up......you see where this is going?

    The easiest thing is to have a set of rules and favour one party and really, that should always be the buyer.
    • Daveym79
    • By Daveym79 10th Nov 18, 6:48 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Daveym79
    There is no mention of the likes of DPD, Hermes, UKMail to name but a few couriers that would do this. I know these types of couriers cannot due to their business models. I am talking about the fact there is possibly room for a specific courier to deal in high value items and that could potentially work alongside either paypal/ebay in terms of an item sold and taking a percentage of the sale price based on the customer agreeing with courier to accept goods upon receiving and inspecting. It's all hypothetical but my point was merely to say it's something that could happen in the future with some considerable work involved to get it right.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Nov 18, 8:31 PM
    • 12,826 Posts
    • 8,678 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    There is no mention of the likes of DPD, Hermes, UKMail to name but a few couriers that would do this. I know these types of couriers cannot due to their business models. I am talking about the fact there is possibly room for a specific courier to deal in high value items and that could potentially work alongside either paypal/ebay in terms of an item sold and taking a percentage of the sale price based on the customer agreeing with courier to accept goods upon receiving and inspecting. It's all hypothetical but my point was merely to say it's something that could happen in the future with some considerable work involved to get it right.
    Originally posted by Daveym79
    A "few couriers" will not do this. No courier will do this.

    A specific courier will not do this and also be the courier that delivered 200 parcels to obscure addresses in Cornwall or the IOM.

    Retail, specifically online sales, depend on the legislation in this country and their own business models to protect them. You work it out, you factor it in, you deal with it. Or you don't. Simples.
    • denrob
    • By denrob 14th Nov 18, 5:36 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    denrob
    Success
    Buyer banned from paypal and ebay. I won the appeal along with GB £50.00 for any inconvenience caused.

    Thank God I photographed the item I sent including the packaging. It was proven he sent another copy back, probably his own damaged one.

    SUCCESS

    Thanks for listening guys. xxx
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