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  • FIRST POST
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 31st Oct 18, 1:36 PM
    • 46Posts
    • 19Thanks
    mwalimu
    Leaving Car Park
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 18, 1:36 PM
    Leaving Car Park 31st Oct 18 at 1:36 PM
    On the morning of 17 October 2018 a car was
    parked in a retail park. The terms there state no parking outside shop opening hours and no parking & leaving.
    No PCN was placed on the car. A PCN letter was sent. There are two photos one close up of car windscreen and one showing a car in its bay. There is nobody in the car. In the background the car park is almost empty.
    Incident date October Issue date: October.


    The PCN letter was sent by normal post and could have been delivered around 23
    /24 October while I was away. I returned home mon 30 October to find the PCN in the heap of post.
    Your standard advice is not to ignore a PCN but as there was no PCN on the car and,

    presumably, no proof of delivery could one
    chuck the PCN in the recycling bin? With
    valuable parcels and significant documents
    one uses Recorded Delivery, or similar, with a signature to prove delivery. As they can not
    prove delivery would one be able in this
    instance to ignore a PCN?








    If you recommend responding to the PCN would it be a legitimate reason to decline to pay by telling them that they have submitted to me no photographic evidence of the occupant/s crossing the site boundary?
    I note that I must pay up £60 "within 14 days of issue" ie 2 November 2018 or have to dig very deep to find £100.
    Sorry to be so late with my search for advice but I have had difficulty in joining this forum. In view of the extremely short "window" your speedy help will be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by mwalimu; 01-11-2018 at 2:28 AM. Reason: Advice from members
Page 4
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 19, 6:02 PM
    • 65,747 Posts
    • 78,256 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Don't tell me...PP haven't trawled your Social Media and found what you look like?

    I wonder if they are trying to intimidate you with that description?

    Really - don't tell us whether this describes you, but I would not put it past a firm who (reportedly) send a pm on this forum to a Defendant in a claim, telling him they would use his forum thread against him, and basically coming across as intimidatory. He ignored them and carried on defending!

    Parking 'employees' (obviously desperately looking for a real job in life) don't have a duty to mitigate loss that POPLA will take into account. So forget that.

    I would be uploading your 2000-character comments on this evidence, briefly pointing out that this has become a 'he said, she said' matter and PP have shown no evidence that the person described was the driver of this car, or that this person left the site (no evidence) and you do not recognise the description as matching any driver of this car, all of whom are bald or female...

    And point out to POPLA that a purported WS from a supposed employee of this rogue industry is all very well, but in fact your own statement of case carries no less weight than the supposed 'warden' who has astonishing and very convenient powers of recall, given that his job every day involves hiding and watching people leave their cars for him to swoop with a PCN.

    Realistically, it would be impossible to recall and describe a person thus without notes & photos of the person taken that day, showing this person at/getting out of the driver's seat of this car (conspicuously not provided to POPLA) and you suspect foul play.

    There is no evidence of any compelling corroborated notes/photos taken on the day so their lack of evidence and dodgy (much later) 'WS' about a grey haired person is laughable. No new photos were supplied, just 2 photos of an empty car & one of signs.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-01-2019 at 6:13 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 10th Jan 19, 6:08 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Thanks for speedy & helpful response. "Action this Day"
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Jan 19, 6:15 PM
    • 10,125 Posts
    • 13,366 Thanks
    beamerguy
    They say
    "We have enclosed a witness statement from our operative taken at the time of issuing the PCN abcd.
    I observed the driver parking, then leaving the site going in the direction of the town centre. It was a male driver with grey hair wearing a dark jacket, grey trousers and with a green rucksack.
    Parking Enforcement Operative ID Number abcd"
    Originally posted by mwalimu
    That description could be of anyone in the UK.
    It could even be me ?

    But the operative did not take a picture of this average type person getting out of the car and walking off site

    I could say that I saw you dropping litter but without proof, even the authorities would not do anything

    But, you can ask this operative to appear in court as long as PP advise him that lying to a judge would be a serious offence and detrimental to PP

    PP should give this one up .... we know PP keeps up to date with this forum

    As PP are a parking company it would be very difficult to prove they are any different to their mates at UKPC who fake pictures

    NO PROOF = JUST HERESAY
    Last edited by beamerguy; 10-01-2019 at 6:21 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 19, 6:56 PM
    • 65,747 Posts
    • 78,256 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I love the fact PP struggle on this forum, yet hang around. They even registered an 'employee' to reply officially to threads but gave that up when called out by regulars.

    And that they (allegedly) crashed heavily when they tried a pm (maybe using that same official PP username?) to intimidate that poster before Christmas by citing his thread here like it was a crime!

    LOL, hilarious and desperate.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 11th Jan 19, 7:02 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mwalimu
    First draft for your comments

    PCN abcd abcber 2018

    Popla Code: abcdefghij

    The driver did not adhere to the terms and conditions of of using the car park by not remaining on site.

    Premier Park did not put a PCN on the windscreen of Car Reg but sent it to me by post with two photos showing car Car Reg parked at abcd Retail Park in town with no one inside.

    I then asked Premier Parking to send me all photos relevant to the case. They sent me none. My appeal was declined.

    Subsequently I submitted a SAR to the DPO at Premier Park and asked them to send me all photos supporting their claim. Their response was to send me 19 sheets of paper in essence outlining the history of my claim and copies of their various policies. They included only further copies of the photos sent with their initial claim. No photos supporting their claim that an occupant of Car Reg left the car park were sent to me.

    I submitted an appeal to POPLA who supplied me with a 25 page document including the evidence submitted by Premier Parking. In addition to the further copies of the photographs already received there was a verbal statement by Premier Parking's operative.

    When a driver has infringed a road rule, such as being in the wrong traffic lane, any notice of the infringement and imposing a financial charge is always supported by corroborating photographic evidence. In the case of Premier Parking's PCN abcd there is only an unsupported verbal statement by Premier Parking's operative that the person described left the car & car park. As a minimum there must be corroboration in the form of photographic evidence of the person described
    in the car,
    getting out of/ and leaving the car
    leaving the controlled parking area.


    As this is an evidence based appeals service and the operator , Premier Park, has provided no corroborating evidence I submit that there is no claim to answer.

    abcd, Car Reg, location passim etc for confidentiality

    Coupon-mad & Beamerguy
    Thanks for your help
    The reference to photos on PP's site shows only general ones taken over a couple of days in April 2018. Just a coincidence that conditions of use were modified in March 2018
    Last edited by mwalimu; 11-01-2019 at 8:52 PM. Reason: Confidentiality & 2108 Wrong century ;-)
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 11th Jan 19, 10:32 PM
    • 38,540 Posts
    • 86,414 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    That's not a PoPLA rebuttal. The first line reads as an admission that the driver was in the wrong.

    You need to rebut each point that the scammers have made, one at a time, referring to each of their headings or paragraph numbers.

    If you have something in your appeal that has not been rebutted then you say this and therefore it must be assumed that the scammers have accepted it to be true.

    The scammers have not produced anything showing the site boundary either in there signage on site or in rebuttal to your appeal.

    The scammers have not provided any contemporary evidence from the day of the alleged event, either photographic or written notes, therefore they have not provided any proof that any occupant of the car left the undefined site.

    The scammers operative has provided a vague description of a random person with no proof they were an occupant of the car. This could have been written weeks after the alleged event. (No mention has been made regarding this alleged person's race, approximate age, clean shaven or otherwise, glasses or otherwise. The only distinguishing features alleged are male and grey hair, which doesn't definitively rule out the person actually being a woman.)
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 11-01-2019 at 10:39 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 12:18 AM
    • 65,747 Posts
    • 78,256 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    None of your post rebuts the evidence, which is all you should be saying.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 12th Jan 19, 3:31 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Fruitcake & Coupon-mad
    Thank you for your helpful comments. The only "evidence" is the witness statement. Despite several requests no corroborating photos.
    And to cap it all the POPLA site now says
    Application error
    An application error has occurred and your request cannot be processed. Please accept our apologies and try again later.
    I will
    However I have only 1 hour PC time today.
    • Jueac
    • By Jueac 12th Jan 19, 3:40 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jueac
    Hi I got a horizon parking charge in December and had a second letter today now wanting £70 do I pay this or ignore it. They have all my details from Dvla without my permission. Iím worried as itís going up and I live on disabled benefit. Should I pay it or not please help as donít want debt collectors as they are threatening
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Jan 19, 3:43 PM
    • 38,540 Posts
    • 86,414 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Hi I got a horizon parking charge in December and had a second letter today now wanting £70 do I pay this or ignore it. They have all my details from Dvla without my permission. I’m worried as it’s going up and I live on disabled benefit. Should I pay it or not please help as don’t want debt collectors as they are threatening
    Originally posted by Jueac
    Please read the sticky thread for NEWBIES then send the blue template from The Keeper that you will find there.

    The NEWBIES tells you everything you need to know on how to deal with this unregulated scam.

    Use the Forum Jump "GO" button in the top or bottom right of this page to find the page with the NEWBIES.

    Start your own thread f you need further help.

    The advice to ignore is not given on this forum, and has not been since the law changed in 2012.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 12-01-2019 at 3:46 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Jan 19, 3:44 PM
    • 12,105 Posts
    • 12,841 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi...
    Originally posted by Jueac
    Hi and welcome.

    To get the best out of this forum you need to start by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to better understand the game you are now caught up in.

    Then if you still have questions you should start a new thread as trying to deal with the problems of more than one person on a single thread can only lead to confusion.
    .
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 12th Jan 19, 3:57 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Guys/esses
    How come someone other than mwalimu, i.e .jueac's, posts appear on mwalimu's "thread"? I thought the correct password was needed. for access. Anyways I hope that jueac will now follow your advice and start his/her own thread

    POPLA site still "application error"
    :-(
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Jan 19, 4:02 PM
    • 10,125 Posts
    • 13,366 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Guys/esses
    How come someone other than mwalimu, i.e .jueac's, posts appear on mwalimu's "thread"? I thought the correct password was needed. for access. Anyways I hope that jueac will now follow your advice and start his/her own thread

    POPLA site still "application error"
    :-(
    Originally posted by mwalimu
    You don't need a password to post on threads

    If jueac wants help, he/she knows what to do now
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Jan 19, 4:03 PM
    • 38,540 Posts
    • 86,414 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Guys/esses
    How come someone other than mwalimu, i.e .jueac's, posts appear on mwalimu's "thread"? I thought the correct password was needed. for access. Anyways I hope that jueac will now follow your advice and start his/her own thread

    POPLA site still "application error"
    :-(
    Originally posted by mwalimu
    The password gets you into MSE. Any member can post on any thread unless it is locked by the mods, otherwise none of us would be able to post here.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 12th Jan 19, 4:08 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Beamerguy
    Thanks. I thought it was 'cos I'd not logged out. I don't see a "Log out" button on my thread, top or bottom. Perhaps I need new glasses
    ;-)
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 12th Jan 19, 4:14 PM
    • 3,419 Posts
    • 5,267 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Beamerguy
    Thanks. I thought it was 'cos I'd not logged out. I don't see a "Log out" button on my thread, top or bottom. Perhaps I need new glasses
    ;-)
    Originally posted by mwalimu

    Ha ha, how do you expect to get answers if people can't post on your thread?


    What @Jueac has done is hi-jacked your thread which is not very smart or helpful.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Jan 19, 4:17 PM
    • 10,125 Posts
    • 13,366 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Beamerguy
    Thanks. I thought it was 'cos I'd not logged out. I don't see a "Log out" button on my thread, top or bottom. Perhaps I need new glasses
    ;-)
    Originally posted by mwalimu
    LOG OUT is on the main page
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 9:12 PM
    • 65,747 Posts
    • 78,256 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Fruitcake & Coupon-mad
    Thank you for your helpful comments. The only "evidence" is the witness statement. Despite several requests no corroborating photos.
    And to cap it all the POPLA site now says
    Application error
    An application error has occurred and your request cannot be processed. Please accept our apologies and try again later.
    I will
    However I have only 1 hour PC time today.
    Originally posted by mwalimu
    Email POPLA and tell them:

    - you cannot view the photo evidence at all, and can only see the Witness Statement so you believe there is an error, because there must be photo/other evidence, and

    - the POPLA site now says:
    ''Application error
    An application error has occurred and your request cannot be processed. Please accept our apologies and try again later.''

    This has disadvantaged you hugely because if the Assessor can see evidence that the Portal has not shown, you've never seen it or had a chance to comment on it, and you require POPLA to show you the full evidence pack and extend the comments time, please.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 13th Jan 19, 1:35 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Thanks Coupon-mad. You suggest emailing POPLA. How? I see only the "form" which says
    " Please provide your comments on the operator evidence.
    You have 7 days from the operator evidence submission date - 09/01/2019. You will not have opportunity to edit or add further detail once you have submitted your comments."

    Would you suggest that I just say
    "I cannot view the photo evidence at all, and can only see the Witness Statement so I believe there is an error, because there must be photo/other evidence, and

    - the POPLA site now says:
    ''Application error
    An application error has occurred and your request cannot be processed. Please accept our apologies and try again later.''

    This has disadvantaged me hugely because if the Assessor can see evidence that the Portal has not shown, I've never seen it or had a chance to comment on it. I require POPLA to show me the full evidence pack. Please extend the time for comments".

    Bearing in mind that the POPLA site says
    "You will not have opportunity to edit or add further detail once you have submitted your comments"
    Or should I add the witness statement

    "We have enclosed a witness statement from our operative taken at the time of issuing the PCN abcd.
    I observed the driver parking, then leaving the site going in the direction of the town centre. It was a male driver with grey hair wearing a dark jacket, grey trousers and with a green rucksack.
    Parking Enforcement Operative ID Number abcd"
    Then say
    The witness statement is from one person with no corroborating photo evidence of the person described
    in the car,
    leaving the car
    or leaving that part of the Name of car park managed by Name of parking firm."
    Perhaps add specific points such as
    Grounds for rejecting initial appeal

    They quote
    1. No evidence of leaving provided by Premier Park
    I say only a uncorroborated statement from one witness
    3.The signs did not show a map defining the limits of the site.
    They say We note that the Appellant has stated “The signs did not show a map defining the limits of the site”, this proves that they saw the signage. There is ample signage on site, and there are entrance signs to indicate the boundaries of the car park.
    I say they do not say when I saw the signage. The sign at the entrance does not define the boundaries.Indeed only part of the name car park is managed by name of parking management .
    Point 2 was about operative not warning person described about leaving car park.They say"not part of her/his job -" for operatives persona safety"
    Point 4 was No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice”. I see no response

    Apologies for my lengthy entry,

    As always your sage comments/advice greatly appreciated
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 1:43 PM
    • 12,105 Posts
    • 12,841 Thanks
    KeithP
    There is an email address on their website.

    They say:
    If you have a complaint about the standard of service that we have provided, please send us an email to info@popla.co.uk
    .
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