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  • FIRST POST
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 30th Oct 18, 7:32 PM
    • 101Posts
    • 14Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    Cold draft / Condensation - Faulty Beading?
    • #1
    • 30th Oct 18, 7:32 PM
    Cold draft / Condensation - Faulty Beading? 30th Oct 18 at 7:32 PM
    Hi guys.

    I've a bit of a dilemma with one of my double-glazed upvc bay window, which as far as I'm aware was fitted by the previous owner approx 4-5yrs ago.

    I'm getting some cold air at the bottom and I know this because I did a candle flame test. This makes the room very cold and I have to keep the heating on much longer to keep warm.

    Also during extremely cold weather, the window has considerable amount of condensation near the bottom of the glass. The window glass itself is fine and the vacuum seal is not broken at all.

    My suspicious is the window's upvc beading which is probably worn. I'm thinking due to the size of the windows, it might be worth saving money and first trying the cheaper open of replacing the beading itself.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks.
Page 1
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 30th Oct 18, 7:41 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    • #2
    • 30th Oct 18, 7:41 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Oct 18, 7:41 PM
    Beading doesn't wear out.
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 30th Oct 18, 8:17 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    • #3
    • 30th Oct 18, 8:17 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Oct 18, 8:17 PM
    Beading doesn't wear out.
    Originally posted by ytfcmad
    Thanks for your reply ytfcmad. The plastic of the beading doesn't wearing out, but doesn't the black rubber that presses against the glass wear out?
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 30th Oct 18, 8:26 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    • #4
    • 30th Oct 18, 8:26 PM
    • #4
    • 30th Oct 18, 8:26 PM
    Thanks for your reply ytfcmad. The plastic of the beading doesn't wearing out, but doesn't the black rubber that presses against the glass wear out?
    Originally posted by halifaxmortgage
    No, there's no movement. Its sort of fit and forget unless you want to de-glaze the window, i have seen instances of the wrong size gasket (black rubber) being used though,if that's the case there would be some play with the DGU. very unlikely its the wrong size bead.
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 30th Oct 18, 8:36 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    • #5
    • 30th Oct 18, 8:36 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Oct 18, 8:36 PM
    The sash might need adjusting so it pulls in tighter against the frame.

    There's a void under the frame in the bay that's not insulated.

    Probably one of the above.
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 30th Oct 18, 10:17 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    • #6
    • 30th Oct 18, 10:17 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Oct 18, 10:17 PM
    Thanks buddy.

    When you say sash, do you mean the top opener? If so, then there are no issues with the openers that I know of.

    Your suggestion of a void under the window seems valid, but how can I check if this is the case and how do
    • Catsacor
    • By Catsacor 31st Oct 18, 6:34 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    Catsacor
    • #7
    • 31st Oct 18, 6:34 AM
    • #7
    • 31st Oct 18, 6:34 AM
    Could it be where the window unit was actually fractionally too small for the brickwork and therefore it needed padding out to make a better fit ?

    As the area 'ages' the filler/padding materials break down slightly, with weathering and cold areas can be felt around the window.

    I've had this scenario twice now
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 31st Oct 18, 7:23 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    • #8
    • 31st Oct 18, 7:23 AM
    • #8
    • 31st Oct 18, 7:23 AM
    Could it be where the window unit was actually fractionally too small for the brickwork and therefore it needed padding out to make a better fit ?

    As the area 'ages' the filler/padding materials break down slightly, with weathering and cold areas can be felt around the window.

    I've had this scenario twice now
    Originally posted by Catsacor
    Yeah, that does make sense, but what's the solution to fix this issue?
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 31st Oct 18, 7:22 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    • #9
    • 31st Oct 18, 7:22 PM
    • #9
    • 31st Oct 18, 7:22 PM
    Thanks buddy.

    When you say sash, do you mean the top opener? If so, then there are no issues with the openers that I know of.

    Your suggestion of a void under the window seems valid, but how can I check if this is the case and how do
    Originally posted by halifaxmortgage

    Yes the sash is the opener.

    Too late to check now fitted.
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 1st Nov 18, 7:11 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    My issue is not related to the opener though?
    • -taff
    • By -taff 1st Nov 18, 8:40 AM
    • 8,715 Posts
    • 8,067 Thanks
    -taff
    You get the condensation on the inside because of the disparity between warm room/cold window/ventilation. I get it on my bedroom windows.


    The solution to fix the issue is to remove any plasterboard/plaster under the sill, check the inslation, insulate properly if not done, replace plaster/plasterboard.
    If there's a radiator in front of it, you'll also have to remove that.
    Not a five minute job for sure.


    Or long thick curtains.
    • Catsacor
    • By Catsacor 1st Nov 18, 1:46 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    Catsacor
    Yeah, that does make sense, but what's the solution to fix this issue?
    Originally posted by halifaxmortgage
    Replacing that window unit to one that fits the brickwork !


    I'm having this particular window replaced next week, then i'll get to see the full extent of the bodged job that was done here.


    I've had the same thing, in this house, with another window and a front door
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 5th Nov 18, 5:11 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    Sorry for the late reply guys. I tried something yesterday, which was to temporarily block the TRICKLE VENT
    on the outside with silicon sealant...

    However firstly this trickle vent does not go through the profile all the way onto the inside. Secondly since blocking the vent, I can feel even more air than before at the bottom of the window. This makes me think that ytfcmad is correct in that there is void under the bay window and the air is pushing up through the cavity/window-sill

    My question is, could I not take off the silicon that is at the bottom of the window and the sill and then force expanding foam through the gap?

    FYI, the gap, once the silicon comes off is approx 1 cm, i.e enough to put the foam bottle straw through it.
    Last edited by halifaxmortgage; 05-11-2018 at 5:14 PM.
    • SatanicHare
    • By SatanicHare 5th Nov 18, 7:56 PM
    • 383 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    SatanicHare
    that's a drainage slot not a trickle vent
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 6th Nov 18, 7:24 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    SatanicHare? What an idiot I am... I'll have to unblock this again.
    • SatanicHare
    • By SatanicHare 6th Nov 18, 7:07 PM
    • 383 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    SatanicHare
    hi i know you say you've done "a candle test" but bear in mind that cold air is denser than warm air so naturally falls. Don't discount the problem being on another part of the window. It may be an idea to get a d/g repair or window installer to have a look before you spend any money on fixing something that may not be faulty
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 7th Nov 18, 9:07 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    hi i know you say you've done "a candle test" but bear in mind that cold air is denser than warm air so naturally falls. Don't discount the problem being on another part of the window. It may be an idea to get a d/g repair or window installer to have a look before you spend any money on fixing something that may not be faulty
    Originally posted by SatanicHare
    Hi Satanic,

    I've cleared the blocked drains.

    Upon your suggestion, I've also had a d/g installer out today. He said he couldn't see anything wrong with the windows as such. He advised that from the date of the glass, these windows were installed approx 2005, which according to him aren't that old.

    He said other than dealing with extraction of moisture, which I've already done, I could leave the windows on lock every night, so that air can circulate, he couldn't think of any other suggestions.

    I think that is not the solution because:
    1. It would make the property unsafe and an easy target for burglars as they could easily pry open the windows.
    2. I would have a lot of heat loss, which would make the house freezing cold and contradicts the point of having energy efficient double-glazed windows.
    • halifaxmortgage
    • By halifaxmortgage 9th Nov 18, 4:37 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    halifaxmortgage
    Can anyone help please with the above?

    Thanks
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 9th Nov 18, 5:47 PM
    • 23,987 Posts
    • 27,139 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    Unfortunately trying to eliminate condensation is always a trade off: lifestyle choices, heating and ventilation. Within that there is generally a cost implication, be that buying, installing or running your extractor or heating.

    Opening window(s) a crack at night does not necessarily make a home "freezing cold" - esp. if your heating is off at night or doors are closed - and there are security locks available.

    The alternatives include a plug-in dehumidifier, positive input ventilation unit or heat recovery ventilation unit. But the latter two might be akin to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!
    Last edited by Fire Fox; 09-11-2018 at 5:53 PM.
    What a difference a day makes, twenty four little hours.
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 9th Nov 18, 6:44 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    Post a picture from the inside showing the whole window and one showing the bottom where it joins the window cill.

    If you dont clear out that drainage slot water will back up and your DGU will break down.
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