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  • FIRST POST
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 27th Oct 18, 10:31 PM
    • 120Posts
    • 22Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Papers only claim
    • #1
    • 27th Oct 18, 10:31 PM
    Papers only claim 27th Oct 18 at 10:31 PM
    Please can someone help, I canít find anything on here about people getting a letter from Gladstones, with court forms attached asking for a papers only hearing. I saw,on Parking
    Pranksters site not do this and go for oral hearing, however my son was using my husbands car so the letters have been intercepted so he didnt see the fines. There were 4 that were ignored basically thinking it was a scam. My husband canít go to court, he would go beserk if he knew, I have sent claim forms back prior to this stating in the defence that the keeper wasnít the driver, but now have this come through, what will happen if I donít accept a papers claim? Will it still go to court?
Page 10
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 10:48 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Time
    Hi, I was just reading back and read your post of coming back,at the ws stage for help, I know you must wonder what I find hard but unfortunately i do, itís a minefield of information to which some applies in part and lots that doesnít, itís the trying to piece it all together thatís causing me problems, I donít even u derstand what happens once Iv sent this in, is it just a case of emailing and asking for on papers only? Court isnít an option Iím just doing what I was advised and going along with it.
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 10:51 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    I know I seem totally stupid, and I guess I am but I really am trying, itís so frustrating even for me that I canít do it, like I said my hubby and son are even worse, what a nightmare. Iím som;OST with this. I will do my best to try what you suggested though thank you
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 10:54 AM
    • 3,681 Posts
    • 2,707 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Your Witness Statement is, as it suggests a statement made by the defendant/Driver of what happened on the day and should build on what you have put in your defence. It is written in the First person (I did this, that or the other) and should refer to anything you want to include as evidence, i.e. tickets purchased, permits shown, photos of poor signage etc.
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 11:01 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    This is where my problem is, and why we were just going to pay, the signs and lighting etc all seem to be ok, it was a private estate and my son was visiting a friend, the friend said itís ok they donít do anything and the security man said itís ok I know your staying here, but now it comes to it thatís no defence, Iv no idea how he can justify it other than in other posts about No loss and the act of only being able to charge original ticket cost but Iím sure that wonít be enough.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 11:09 AM
    • 3,681 Posts
    • 2,707 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    It might be too late as it should have been in your defence but look up the law of promissory estoppel (ask Auntie Google) but you/your son could put it into the WS that you were told it was OK to park there.
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 11:25 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    In my defence I wrote what generally people say, my statement would be pretty much a duplicate of that. Everything I have done so far has been on the advice of people on here, the whole don’t do papers, wait for a court date, then change and ask for papers only after all, that confused me a bit but I went along with it, I just hope it works out for the best now.
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 11:39 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Thatís very interesting, Iv never heard of that... surprise surprise
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 1:30 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Lost
    Sorry Iv spent the last 2 hours trying to find the newbies,thread then I his Ctrl F and nothing happens, Iím so lost in this, I just want to find what you suggest under witness but getting nowhere, please can you help me?
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 2:07 PM
    • 3,681 Posts
    • 2,707 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Here is the link to the NEWBIE section. Sometimes things don't work as well on a phone as on a laptop or PC.
    Once you have used the link, scroll down a bit, hit Ctrl F and a small dialogue box will open towards the top left of the screen. In there type what you are searching for and hit one of the words "Previous" or "Next" to take you through the document. The words you search for will be highlighted with a yellow box.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jan 19, 2:14 PM
    • 21,291 Posts
    • 33,514 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    There's no Ctrl F on an iPad. This is the method you use as the alternative:

    https://www.imore.com/how-use-smart-search-bar-safari-iphone-and-ipad
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 3:23 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Oh thank you both so much I’ll try that now.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 4:01 PM
    • 21,001 Posts
    • 26,373 Thanks
    Redx
    get the defendant to get a pen and a piece of A4 paper

    get them to write down what they actually know about this incident , plus what they were TOLD about this incident, adding a comment that they have been told that "promissory estoppel! applies in this case

    also get the son to do the same , what he KNOWS about the incident, what he was told on the day in question and by whom (tenant , security guard etc). he can also write that he has been told that "promissory estoppel" applies and he was only following instructions by the various people on site as he has no written knowledge of the tenancy contract or visitor instructions so had to rely on verbal instructions

    write the 2 statements on here in 2 separate posts so we can see what is written

    when this is all approved get them signed and dated

    the defendant will then follow the full instructions on the latest letter and deliver copies of both statements to the court and to the claimant, plus keep a third copy for themselves

    also bear in mind that the technical instructions we are telling you about are nearly always for windows based laptops, not Ipads, so unless somebody like Umkomaas gives you specific IPAD instructions like he did above, assume its not for ipads at all, meaning its your job to find the equivalent instructions for apple products seeing as you bought and own it

    the defendant can also tell the court in a separate written and signed and dated statement that mediation is not wanted and they wish for the judge to hear it "on papers" because ...........................

    give copies to the court and defendant at the same time as the WS are done
    Last edited by Redx; 13-01-2019 at 4:23 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 4:25 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Ah ok. Well it’s just the car is registered to my husband, he only knows from what my son tells him as the driver, as to what happened so should he just say the story as told by my son or just say he is only the regi
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 4:35 PM
    • 3,681 Posts
    • 2,707 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    One can only write what you know as a witness, therefore your husband cannot write what happened in the car park but your son can. Your husband can write what your son told him, although I am not sure if that comes under the term of hearsay. Others will know about this and will be along soon to advise.
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 4:38 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    sorry, do you mean lay it all out properly? This is where I have trouble understanding things Iím so sorry, I think I understand it as my husband writes what my son told him and my son writes what happened even though obviously both stories will be the same? Then you want me to write on here what they are written, this is going to be a long process, my son now lives elsewhere and I never really see him so I guess I would have to get him to tell me on the phone and I write it down just to show you, but then I type it out and send to him for him to sign, is that right?
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 5:06 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Ah I did wonder. It’s quite complicated and I really hope someone can help me like you have, I only carried on with this after being told come back at WS stage and they will help me, so would be great if someone can otherwise this is all going to go very wrong, I wasn’t sure who should say what happened me how to actually put it into words, I can have an idea but then actually putting it in writing is where it all goes very wrong for me, I wish I was more literate I really do, thank you for your patience
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 5:15 PM
    • 21,001 Posts
    • 26,373 Thanks
    Redx
    correct

    I thought I made it crystal clear what they should both be doing, because you need them BOTH to write a WS each and BOTH need to be submitted, as well as the hear it on papers request too (all in writing)

    the judge has told your husband to write a WS in the letter he received so unless your husband wishes to defy the judge and not do so, then he must do so, so he writes down what he KNOWS and what he has been told about this saga and tells the judge in his signed WS

    he also writes a letter to the same court asking for it to be heard on papers because.... (give the reasons why he does not wish to attend court) - this is what you asked about all along, so it gets done at this time too

    your son can dictate over the phone or email or write a WS , sign and date it and send it to you,, whatever it takes, so dont ask, just DO, but its not a WS until its written down and signed and dated, so however you get it done, it must come back to your husband as a written signed and dated WS, so that your husband can photocopy it and submit it

    once all these papers are done and signed and dated , make at least 2 or 3 copies, send the originals to the court and copies to the claimant and keep a copy yourselves

    that recent court letter has told your husband what to do, so as defendant he must do it, no ifs , no buts, he must follow their instructions to the letter

    background :- your son was a witness to what happened on the day because it happened to him, so he writes his story (his WS) which backs up dads story and adds details that dad would not know but are crucial to this case (facts)


    both stories (WS) are given to the court and to the claimant , as well as the "on papers" request


    if YOU want them to be checked, then copy them onto here as separate letters, but cross out the personal info with XXXXX in each and every part of each letter, so no names, no references , no number plate details, no identifiers
    Last edited by Redx; 13-01-2019 at 5:23 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 19, 5:20 PM
    • 65,498 Posts
    • 78,048 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Just two signed & dated stories of what happened, with the headings (top) and statement of truth (bottom) that the helpful Judge told you to put on these statements. Easier than you think.

    Your son DOES NOT write that he 'didn't look' for signs or 'failed' to see signs.

    He writes that no signs were clear & obvious at all and that he was certainly authorised to park and had no opportunity to read or even guess that there were any contractual terms where he parked.

    Can you also get a 3rd witness statement, from the resident who authorised him to park?

    Your papers need to be pretty good if the D is planning to tell the Judge a couple of weeks before the hearing that he wants the case heard in his absence (which is not what this forum recommends).

    And yes, why not get someone with a PC in the family/or a good friend to do these for you, it will take a competent person minutes to type up the headings, statement, and then add the ending and name/date section. You will also need these printed and signed/dated so will need someone with a printer to assist you anyway.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-01-2019 at 5:25 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 5:27 PM
    • 21,001 Posts
    • 26,373 Thanks
    Redx
    I agree with the above, so add a 3rd written , signed & dated WS to the mix from the resident that the son visited, if possible, again to back up what your husband was "told" by the son when your hubby received the PCN (which was why he hasnt paid it)

    and as above, your son states that the signs were not clear and obvious , he was authorised to park and no paperwork was shown to him that made him think any contracts were in force , etc etc

    so your son believed the resident and the security guard , your husband believed your son, so ideally 3 people tell the story as they know it (the 3 of 4 people involved , because I doubt that the security guard will write down his story)


    ps:- its a bit late now but in future , your husband will name the driver in his first reply to the PPC and let the driver deal with it once the driver has ther pcn in their OWN NAME , which hubby should have done in this particular case due to your personal circumstances
    Last edited by Redx; 13-01-2019 at 5:48 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • uselesspleasehelp
    • By uselesspleasehelp 13th Jan 19, 7:46 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    uselesspleasehelp
    Oh thank you so much for making this clearer, Iím sorry to be such a headache, I annoy myself so must infuriate you such helpful people. I will do my best to get this done, still not much idea what to say compared to everyone elseís, but can I add the pofa line, and the ones others have used as I did in my defence? Also I have just driven to the place and taken photos, should I not include those? Thereís no visible signs. But also the friend has moved out and due to this are actually no longer friends anyway, so thatís a real pain. this has caused so much drama and stress to us. My husband wonít defend my son in court basically, and despite the fact he would get in trouble at the end of the day, he just wonít, itís a long story about a not great relationship, i donít even know what reason to give for papers only, another headache.
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