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  • FIRST POST
    • Dorklyte
    • By Dorklyte 13th Oct 18, 1:48 PM
    • 2Posts
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    Dorklyte
    Unpaid Training Period - Pizza shop
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:48 PM
    Unpaid Training Period - Pizza shop 13th Oct 18 at 1:48 PM
    Hi,
    My freind is a refugee with right to work in the uk.
    she recently started working for a Pizza shop, however possibly due to a combination of language difficuties, deafness dissability and pride she did not agree in advance a wage or pay date etc.
    she has so far worked for a period of 40 hours and was offered 50 for this period of time with the manager stating that the first three days were an unpaid training period.
    My freind is of the opinion that it is fair for her to work the first eight hour shift volunterrilty but would like to be paid for the rest of the time.
    I would appreciate any advise on her rights, what we should put in her correspondance to the employer etc.
    There was no written contract etc, it was all very informal.


    Thank you for reading this far
    I hope your day is harmonious
    Kind regards
    Jonny


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    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 18, 2:35 PM
    • 5,497 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 18, 2:35 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 18, 2:35 PM
    I am afraid that your friend needs to learn that she discusses her "opinions"about what she is paid before she works, not after! She should be paid for all the hours that she worked, but unless she can prove that she worked and that there was any agreement to pay her, then I think she will struggle to see any money from the now ex- employer - because she won't have a job anyway.

    Neither pride nor deafness are good reasons for not discussing pay with an employer. And her language skills would need to be very poor to not be able to express "how much will I get paid and when?". If that was a poor attempt at querying race or disability discrimination, then no, I don't see that flying. Surely anyone who is entering into a job knows to ask how and when they get paid?

    If she can evidence her hours and that they were on an employed basis, then a letter before action may get her the pay. But I'm not hopeful. The employer sounds awful, but if they can get away with it, and she lets them, then they will.

    The best service you can do for her is to ensure she understands basic employment rights in the UK. So she doesn't do this again.
    • Me2you
    • By Me2you 13th Oct 18, 2:43 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Me2you
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 18, 2:43 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 18, 2:43 PM
    Even if the first three days were unpaid she’s still not paid enough.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 13th Oct 18, 3:28 PM
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    pinkshoes
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 3:28 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 3:28 PM
    Even if the first three days were training, then the last two days need to be paid at national minimum wage.

    8 hours x 2 days x 7.83 = 125.28. (Assuming over 25)
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 18, 4:14 PM
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    sangie595
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 4:14 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 4:14 PM
    I think the point is being missed. There's no such thing as unpaid training- if someone is employed then they are due a wage. Many employers get away with unpaid training simply because nobody can risk challenging this. However, the first thing she had to prove is that she was employed. Did she agree to work for free to gain experience, and was never employed? I very much doubt it, but the point is prove it. According to this, there wasn't even a verbal agreement. No wage was offered. No wage was accepted.

    It isn't fair. But life isn't. She needs to evidence her employment, and claim wages, but accepting that there is unlikely to be a job at the end of it anyway.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 13th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
    She could report the company to HMRC as NMW has not been paid. Assuming eight hours a shift, even the lowest pay (4.20 for under 18s) equals 67.20 for two days (assuming each day is an eight hour shift). If you assume one hour unpaid break per shift, then fourteen hours at the lowest rate of pay is still 58.80

    She should also receive a payslip with details of hourly pay, hours worked, any deductions, and total amount paid. The shop can be reported if they refuse to provide this too.

    I think that it is obvious that she is no longer likely to have a job there, but if she reports these things, it may help to prevent the shop from doing the same to other people in the future.
    • Tallaght
    • By Tallaght 13th Oct 18, 5:37 PM
    • 677 Posts
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    Tallaght
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:37 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:37 PM
    I think a lot of these jobs are 'cash in hand' like car wash staff.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 14th Oct 18, 8:33 AM
    • 499 Posts
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    Les79
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 18, 8:33 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 18, 8:33 AM
    I think a lot of these jobs are 'cash in hand' like car wash staff.
    Originally posted by Tallaght
    Yep, probably off the books and all that.

    People may shout at me for this bit of advice, but I'd consider working another week and seeing what they pay. 50 is better than nothing and they *should* be paying the friend a full wage for the next week. If they don't then you know where you stand.

    It is just those sort of jobs; they are super easy to get (especially if foreign) but it comes with the fact that you are generally "off the books" and get treated poorly, with little in the way of rights.

    It isn't right, but it is money.

    Though maybe I'll get the "your attitude encourages employers paying less than nmw" but no, it is just how society works and the government simply don't have the resources to deal with all of it. I'd have everyone paid NMW, but in times of hardship that 50 could mean a lot in between jobs.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Oct 18, 10:13 AM
    • 5,497 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 18, 10:13 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 18, 10:13 AM
    Yep, probably off the books and all that.

    People may shout at me for this bit of advice, but I'd consider working another week and seeing what they pay. 50 is better than nothing and they *should* be paying the friend a full wage for the next week. If they don't then you know where you stand.

    It is just those sort of jobs; they are super easy to get (especially if foreign) but it comes with the fact that you are generally "off the books" and get treated poorly, with little in the way of rights.

    It isn't right, but it is money.

    Though maybe I'll get the "your attitude encourages employers paying less than nmw" but no, it is just how society works and the government simply don't have the resources to deal with all of it. I'd have everyone paid NMW, but in times of hardship that 50 could mean a lot in between jobs.
    Originally posted by Les79
    Putting aside the wrongness of this argument, nobody can live on 50 a week. Presumably this person, if a refugee with leave to remain, is claiming benefits. Are you suggesting that they give up those benefits for 50 a week? Or that they commit benefit fraud by falling to disclose that they are working full time or have other income? Perhaps not - but if not, what?

    A refugee would be stupid to risk their status by doing anything that focuses the law on their activities. A UK citizen, at worst, gets a sanction. A refugee could get a free flight home to an unsafe place.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 14th Oct 18, 1:07 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 612 Thanks
    Les79
    Putting aside the wrongness of this argument, nobody can live on 50 a week. Presumably this person, if a refugee with leave to remain, is claiming benefits. Are you suggesting that they give up those benefits for 50 a week? Or that they commit benefit fraud by falling to disclose that they are working full time or have other income? Perhaps not - but if not, what?

    A refugee would be stupid to risk their status by doing anything that focuses the law on their activities. A UK citizen, at worst, gets a sanction. A refugee could get a free flight home to an unsafe place.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    True true. Can't argue with any of that.

    Bit of a rubbish situation for OP here like. Hopefully the pay will go back up to NMW in the coming week else it would be best seeking another position.
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