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    • Matt1111
    • By Matt1111 13th Oct 18, 12:30 PM
    • 6Posts
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    Matt1111
    Northampton County Court parking fine headache
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:30 PM
    Northampton County Court parking fine headache 13th Oct 18 at 12:30 PM
    Hello guys,

    I'm new here so I need a lot of help. Got this Northampton County Court form because of Parking fines. It says Claimant is Parking Control Management and address for documents and payments is Gladstones Solicitors.
    It's giving me a headache as people have been telling me they could give me a CCJ meaning I won't be able to buy a house. I'm 22 and I'm a student at Hertfordshire University. The parking fine was in Salisbury Village so behind De-havilland Campus.
    Do I have to defend or acknowledge? How do I do it? Could anyone give me a defence letter template so I could add my details in and send it off. Who do I send the defence letter off to?
    I can't pay that amount i'm a student so money wise it's tough.
    I'm stressed out because of this, I can't focus at uni it's worrying me and parents keep having a go at me too so any help would be appreciated.
    Seen on the forum that most cases can be won so that gave me some sort of relief but still worried.

    Thank you guys Help me out please.


    IMG_2402.JPG
    Last edited by Matt1111; 13-10-2018 at 12:33 PM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 18, 12:45 PM
    • 37,563 Posts
    • 84,493 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:45 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:45 PM
    Follow the guide to court you will find in post 2 of the NEWBIES.

    You start by completing the AoS saying you will defend. Do not put anything in the defence box. Not a thing, not even a full stop.

    Follow the step by step guide from the NEWBIES, and ask questions here if you are unsure.

    Have you complained to the landowner?
    Did you appeal the original PCN, and if so did you give away the driver's identity.

    In most cases the driver should not be identified and only the keeper defends. These are two different people as far as the law is concerned.

    Please do complain to your MP about this unregulated cowboy scam (MPs own words.)
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Matt1111
    • By Matt1111 13th Oct 18, 12:53 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Matt1111
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:53 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:53 PM
    Thanks for your reply. No I just ignored the tickets as I've been told they're private companies wanting to rob money off everyone so I haven't made any contact with anyone. Should I reply to the claim (defend) online using the money claim login instead of filling the form that came through the post?

    Update: Moneyclaim login doesn't work
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 13th Oct 18, 1:43 PM
    • 3,656 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:43 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:43 PM
    Have you searched the boards for any other claims for this location. Try this

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5905938&highlight=salisbury+villa ge

    Then look at one for guess_hu and then look at his defence to see if it matches your circumstances.

    If you are at Uni, you should have sussed out how to research issues by now or do the lecturers spoon feed you?
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Oct 18, 1:58 PM
    • 9,784 Posts
    • 10,129 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:58 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:58 PM
    Should I reply to the claim (defend) online using the money claim login instead of filling the form that came through the post?
    No, don't do either of those.

    You should follow the guidance offered in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    The first thing to do is the Acknowledgement of Service.

    How to do that is described in a pictorial Dropbox file linked from post #2 of that NEWBIES thread already mentioned.

    What is the Date of Issue on your Claim Form?

    Please can you post the exact wording in the Particulars of Claim box on your Claim Form.
    .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 18, 4:27 PM
    • 37,563 Posts
    • 84,493 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 4:27 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 4:27 PM
    The advice to ignore has not been given since the law changed in 2012, so you have been following out of date information.

    As I already said, and KeithP confirmed, you start with the AoS, not the defence.

    Don't use any forms that come from the scammers or their representatives, only ones from the court, and only in the correct order as defined by the guide in post 2 of the NEWBIES.

    You may need to create a Government Gateway, and I think you may need some independent verification to do that to confirm your identity. There are usually several offered. I have used the Post Office online verification system myself, but other methods are available.

    If you want to post any (redacted) documents, upload them to a web hosting site such as postimg.cc or tinypic (others are available) then post the URL here, changing http to hxxp to create a dead link.
    Someone here will then change it back to a live link so it can be viewed.

    Do NOT reveal the driver's identity. So no, I did this or the reason I parked was, or anything like that. Everything comes from The Keeper.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-10-2018 at 4:31 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Matt1111
    • By Matt1111 13th Oct 18, 10:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt1111
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:51 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:51 PM
    Thanks for the reply everyone.

    The defense by guess_hu looks fine to me.

    I've followed the whole money claim procedures as stated on the #2 NEWBIES FAQ and I've submitted the acknowledgment of service.
    The box on MCOL shows this now:

    A claim was issued against you on 04/10/2018
    Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 13/10/2018 at 23:14:22


    link for the pic of the court form hxxp://ibb.co/hp9weU

    What do I do now?

    Thank you guys!
    Last edited by Matt1111; 13-10-2018 at 11:18 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Oct 18, 11:06 PM
    • 9,784 Posts
    • 10,129 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:06 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:06 PM
    Did you read post #5?

    https://ibb.co/hp9weU

    With a Claim Issue Date of 4th October, you have until Tuesday 23rd October to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Tuesday 6th November 2018 to file your Defence.

    Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Oct 18, 9:38 AM
    • 37,563 Posts
    • 84,493 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 18, 9:38 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 18, 9:38 AM
    Thanks for the reply everyone.

    The defense by guess_hu looks fine to me.
    Originally posted by Matt1111
    Defence. Getting things right on here will help you get things right on the legal documents.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Matt1111
    • By Matt1111 14th Oct 18, 11:50 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt1111
    I randomly just parked there as my university library is closer to that road. I have no idea how to structure the defence to be honest. If anyone can find me a good defence It would help me a lot.
    The defense by guess_hu looks fine to me but there's stuff about people living there and stuff i'm not sure if it's fine.
    Here's the defence again:

    1. The Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of vehicle registration number XXXXXXX on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The ‘land’ which forms the basis of the current claim consists of a relatively small number of non marked parking spaces. Given this lack of clarity regarding how or where a resident with a parking permit is, or is not, allowed to park in this car park, no contract can be construed from the Claimant's signage, under the contra proferentem principle.


    3. Accordingly, it is denied that the Defendant breached any of the Claimant's purported contractual terms, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    4. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient interest in the land or that there are specific terms in its contract to bring an action on its own behalf. As a third party agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge, unless specifically authorised by the principal. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant does not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name, and that they have no right to bring any action regarding this claim.

    5) This claim and the other very similar one merely states: ''parking charges and indemnity costs if applicable'' which does not give any indication of on what basis the claim is brought. For example whether this charge is founded upon an allegation of trespass or 'breach of contract' or contractual 'unpaid fees'. Nor are any clear times/dates or coherent grounds for any lawful claim particularised, nor were any details provided to evidence any contract created nor any copy of this contract, nor explanation for the vague description 'parking charges' and 'indemnity costs'.

    6) The Claimant’s solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action. HMCS have identified over 1000 similar poorly produced claims and the solicitor's conduct in many of these cases is believed to be currently the subject of an active investigation by the SRA.

    7) I believe the term for such conduct is ‘robo-claims’ which is against the public interest, demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and is unfair on unrepresented consumers. I have reason to believe that this is a claim that will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to my significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant.

    8) I suggest that parking companies using the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support.

    9) No evidence has been supplied by this claimant as to who parked the vehicle. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 there is no presumption in law as to who parked a vehicle on private land nor does there exist any obligation for a keeper to name a driver. I choose to defend this claim as the registered keeper, as is my right.

    10) It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant (if any debt exists, which is denied) would be the landowner.

    11) It is not believed that the Claimant has incurred additional costs - be it legal or debt collector costs or even their unlawful, fixed sum card surcharge for payments - and they are put to strict proof that they have actually incurred and can lawfully add an extra sums and that those sums formed part of the permit/parking contract formed with the resident in the first instance.

    12) This case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes. Charges cannot exist merely to punish drivers. This claimant has failed to show any comparable 'legitimate interest' to save their charge from Lord Dunedin's four tests for a penalty, which the Supreme Court Judges found was still adequate in less complex cases, such as this allegation.


    Would this defence win the case?

    Thank you
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 15th Oct 18, 5:15 AM
    • 3,656 Posts
    • 5,976 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Would this defence win the case?
    You misunderstand the process. It's the presented facts that win the case and you don't know what hand the other side is playing until the hearing. All this defence does is to get you to the next stage which allows you 5-6 months to get the facts i.e. their hand, from the various sources.

    These all turn on the wording of the signs; the visibility of the signs; and the contract they have. They can fail on one or more of these issues but you don't know until you check.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • Matt1111
    • By Matt1111 15th Oct 18, 3:29 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt1111
    Thanks for the reply.

    What would your suggestion be for a good defence for my situation which I've explained in my previous reply.

    Thank you
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Oct 18, 4:00 PM
    • 3,677 Posts
    • 4,505 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    MAtt - you havent understood what is being said

    Youre looking for a one step win.
    That is NOT how the legal process (usually) works, and is not how it will work in your case

    Have you read post 2 of the newbies thread? Yes or No
    If YES you would have seen that submitting the defence is only step 2 of the process. Following this you have a bit more work to do.

    We're not saying the defence is bad. You just seem to think it will "win" at this point.
    That isnt how it works

    Please let us know if this makes sense!
    • Matt1111
    • By Matt1111 16th Oct 18, 11:30 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt1111
    Sorry for annoying you guys I might sound stupid with my questions.

    I've ready post 2 of the newbies thread and I've found a suitable defence from the forum by going through some posts. I've made small changes to it to make it look like mine. Can anyone help me make any changes to this?



    "1. I am the Defendant, xxxxx, DOB xx/xx/xxxx, and reside at xxxxxxxxx

    2. Save as specifically admitted in this defence the Defendant denies each and every allegation set out in the Particulars of Claim, or implied in Pre action correspondence.

    3. The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the Defendant as the Claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16 and practice direction 16 7.5. In this regard I wish to draw the Courts attention to the following matters;

    (a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the any agreement. the method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, how they became due, or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim.

    (b) The over riding objective of the CPRs dictates that the case should be handled at a proportionate cost. The defendant recognises this duty and refrains from making an application for summary judgement at a cost which exceeds the claims value but asks the court to strike the claim out under it’s powers, of it’s own motion as several Judges across the country have already done.

    4. The defendant was the registered keeper on the material dates. The claimant is put to strict proof of who was driving.

    5. The claimants notice to keepers do not comply with the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 paragraph 8 including but not limited to 2(f).

    6. The signs used by the claimant cannot constitute a contract as they are prohibitive or forbidding and do not have the necessary requirements of a contract, offer, acceptance and consideration. The supreme court stated in Parking Eye v Beavis that only the land owner/occupier could sue for trespass.

    7. The signs are not clear, prominent and legible as per Parking Eye v Beavis. They cannot create a contract. The charge is buried in the small print and is an unfair term. The signs were sparse.

    8. The signs attempt to create a distance contract but are unenforceable as they do not contain the correct cancellation information required by the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation And Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

    9. The claimant is put to strict proof that they are entitled to 246.79 plus interest as claimed.

    10. It is denied that any contract was entered in to between myself and the claimant or that I have any liability in this matter.

    11. Should the claimants try to make a case via witness statement I request the claim is adjourned at the claimants expense to enable a full particularised defence to be entered.

    Statement of Truth

    I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true."
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Oct 18, 6:17 AM
    • 3,656 Posts
    • 5,976 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Look fine apart from #8 but unless someone has a different idea, I'd get it in.

    These claims are all about, who are the actual parties, the signs, the space, the authority to be there. Or even simpler - was someone space abused and was there a warning about what would happen.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
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