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  • FIRST POST
    • eamon
    • By eamon 13th Oct 18, 10:26 AM
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    eamon
    Identity (lack of)
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:26 AM
    Identity (lack of) 13th Oct 18 at 10:26 AM
    Hello Folks


    Hoping for useful ideas, tips and other approaches to try on this one.


    One of my best friends has a problem/dilema to solve.


    He doesn't have a birth certificate and is now finding it increasingly dificult to access state services as he can't prove who he is.


    This what he does have.
    • NI number (been working since leaving school at 15 (1979 I think)
    • NHS number
    This is what he has not got

    • Birth certificate
    • Passport
    • Driving licence
    • Siblings
    • Relatives that he is aware of
    To complicate matters his parents and early family life were dysfunctional and moved frequently when he was a small child. It is possible that he was born in the Netherlands (father and mother may have been serving in the RAF across the border at RAF Bruggen). The father didn't stay around for long. As far as I know both are deceased or otherwise incapacitated.


    This is what he knows
    • Schools attended
    • Where he grew up
    • Employment history
    This is what he doesn't know
    • Place of birth
    • Mothers maiden name
    • If his parents were married, got divorced etc
    He asked a local advice center for help and they weren't much use.
    I'm thinking if it is possible to back track through his National Insurance number and find more information that way. How could that be done? Ask the RAF to record check, again how is that done? The schools that my friend attended have been demolished, closed etc what would have happened to their records and if the records exist the likely site of the repository, is it possible to search?


    Hope some of you knowledgeable people can help and or suggest another means of getting him an identity. In case some ask he was made redundant from his last job, his partner has a good paying job so he won't starve or be homeless. I have no idea how he managed to get around the right to work questionaire but the old rules were less strict.


    GRO only goes to 1917 for births, 1957 for deaths (tried searching for his father)


    Eamon
    Last edited by eamon; 13-10-2018 at 12:07 PM. Reason: More infor
Page 1
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 13th Oct 18, 11:26 AM
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:26 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:26 AM
    The NHS number would probably have been allocated to him at birth - going by his age, the old style number (not the M000000xxxx type) would be printed on the certificate (it is on mine). He has his name and his date of birth, so would be able to find his birth certificate in that way - the council registrars' office would be able to help him. He might have been registered at a Consulate (should have been, anyhow - and he would probably have been included on his mother's passport).

    He could also try using the online genealogy sites on a free trial.


    However, he should be aware that, although poking around can be risky in some sense - the Windrush people are proof of that - not doing anything about it could end up with the ridiculous situation some of them have where they suddenly get a deportation letter or refused medical treatment. So he has to do something.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
    • Seanymph
    • By Seanymph 13th Oct 18, 11:30 AM
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    Seanymph
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:30 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:30 AM
    With a name and dob he can do online searches and see if he can pull something up - if he knows his mothers married name he can trawl for a marriage certificate, a copy of that will give him a maiden name.

    It's basically a genealogy search - membership of the obvious sites gives lots of online search tools. He has to work on it as if he's looking for a third person.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 13th Oct 18, 11:31 AM
    • 30,140 Posts
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    Mojisola
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:31 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:31 AM
    One of my best friends has a problem/dilema to solve.

    He doesn't have a birth certificate and is now finding it increasingly dificult to access state services as he can't prove who he is.
    Originally posted by eamon
    Has he done the obvious and tried the GRO for a birth certificate?
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 13th Oct 18, 11:38 AM
    • 1,073 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:38 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:38 AM
    If not on GRO then need to consider the fact that he may have been born abroad - hopefully there may be some sort of record in father's RAF record (as a dependant) . If dad didn't stay around, how did baby get back to UK?
    NHS number may have been given on arrival in the UK

    I have known of someone whose birth wasn't registered and after various declarations by people and info from the medical records ie approx age (!) they were given a birth cert (or at least something that passes for one)
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 13th Oct 18, 11:50 AM
    • 25,337 Posts
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:50 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:50 AM
    Has he done the obvious and tried the GRO for a birth certificate?
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    The obvious online application requires the place of birth if the actual record number/GRO reference isn't available. Why was why I suggested the Registrars' for help.

    Providing a GRO index reference will speed up your application. Please visit the GRO website at www.gro.gov.uk to access the GRO Index of historical birth and death records or phone 0300 123 1837 for details on how to obtain a GRO Index

    Reference number. Some county record offices, public libraries and family history societies hold copies of GRO microfiche and the Indexes are also available on several independent websites.

    There are no general rules for the indexing of events registered overseas, the following descriptions refer to the indexes for events registered in England & Wales only. For overseas applications please copy the overseas index reference as it appears
    in the index, in the space provided.
    From Here

    Once he has a birth certificate, it's a lot easier to get a passport and, once he has that, it's simple to get a driving licence (I'm assuming he doesn't drive, but you don't have to drive to at least get a provisional photocard as ID) and he's sorted.
    Last edited by Jojo the Tightfisted; 13-10-2018 at 12:14 PM.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
    • eamon
    • By eamon 13th Oct 18, 12:23 PM
    • 1,688 Posts
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    eamon
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:23 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 12:23 PM
    The NHS number would probably have been allocated to him at birth - going by his age, the old style number (not the M000000xxxx type) would be printed on the certificate (it is on mine). He has his name and his date of birth, so would be able to find his birth certificate in that way - the council registrars' office would be able to help him. He might have been registered at a Consulate (should have been, anyhow - and he would probably have been included on his mother's passport).

    He could also try using the online genealogy sites on a free trial.


    However, he should be aware that, although poking around can be risky in some sense - the Windrush people are proof of that - not doing anything about it could end up with the ridiculous situation some of them have where they suddenly get a deportation letter or refused medical treatment. So he has to do something.
    Originally posted by Jojo the Tightfisted

    How could he use the NHS number to trace his birth certificate?
    If he was picked up by the border agency and deported etc at least that would tell him where he is from.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 13th Oct 18, 1:12 PM
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    Silvertabby
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:12 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:12 PM
    Could his mother have been Dutch? They would have been allocated a married quarter at RAF Bruggen (Germany) only if they were legally married, so if he is sure that he was born in Holland it could be that his parents were living together and that his Dutch mother registered his birth. If it helps, the nearest Dutch town to Bruggen is Roermond.

    I doubt his mum was also serving in the RAF - married or unmarried, pregnancy for a WRAF back then was a sackable offence. If unmarried, then she would have been shipped back to the UK as soon as the pregnancy was confirmed.

    If they were married, however, then the birth would have been registered with HQ BAOR at what was then RAF Rheindahlen. Unfortunately, that no longer exists so it is likely that the register is now in some Army archive in the bowels of the MOD (which is why we will NEVER let go of our original marriage certificate !)

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 13-10-2018 at 1:14 PM.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 13th Oct 18, 1:43 PM
    • 30,140 Posts
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    Mojisola
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:43 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 18, 1:43 PM
    The obvious online application requires the place of birth if the actual record number/GRO reference isn't available.
    Originally posted by Jojo the Tightfisted
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

    If the person's name is very common, this might not narrow things down enough but it's worth a try.
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 13th Oct 18, 1:58 PM
    • 25,337 Posts
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    How could he use the NHS number to trace his birth certificate?
    If he was picked up by the border agency and deported etc at least that would tell him where he is from.
    Originally posted by eamon

    According to the internet (and my own birth certificate), between 1969 and July 1995, the old-style NHS number was used on a baby's birth certificate as the reference number for the certificate. If the person concerned in the OP was either born in that period or was brought to this country during that period and registered, it might provide all the information required to get a copy.

    Another internet search gives 'The numerical part of ID/NHS numbers allocated to persons born after the Second World War in England and Wales matched the birth register entry number (i.e. a person whose birth was entry number xy would have an ID/NHS number in the format LLLLxy). Between 1969 and July 1995, the old-style NHS number was used on a baby's birth certificate as the reference number for the certificate.'

    It's worth a try, surely?

    I'm sorry if I didn't explain that clearly in the first place - I've got a cold and a stinking, rotten headache at the moment.
    Last edited by Jojo the Tightfisted; 13-10-2018 at 2:00 PM.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 13th Oct 18, 2:17 PM
    • 25,337 Posts
    • 102,307 Thanks
    Jojo the Tightfisted
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

    If the person's name is very common, this might not narrow things down enough but it's worth a try.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    Only goes up to 1917.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 13th Oct 18, 2:58 PM
    • 1,073 Posts
    • 1,298 Thanks
    Flugelhorn
    Only goes up to 1917.
    Originally posted by Jojo the Tightfisted
    Some paid for online sites go much further (beyond 1979)
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 13th Oct 18, 4:31 PM
    • 30,140 Posts
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    Mojisola
    Only goes up to 1917.
    Originally posted by Jojo the Tightfisted
    Brain's not on full power today.

    eamon - I've got a subscription to a paid site and could do a look-up if that would help.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 13th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    • 6,736 Posts
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    GlasweJen
    If there's any chance he or his parents were born or married in Scotland you can check the National records for Scotland online for free. All you need is a name and rough date of birth.
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    • eamon
    • By eamon 13th Oct 18, 8:41 PM
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    eamon
    Brain's not on full power today.

    eamon - I've got a subscription to a paid site and could do a look-up if that would help.
    Originally posted by Mojisola

    Would it be ok if I pm'd you?
    • clairec79
    • By clairec79 13th Oct 18, 9:09 PM
    • 2,428 Posts
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    clairec79
    find my past has the overseas registers for those years https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/british-armed-forces-and-overseas-births-and-baptisms

    Mine is on there (born 1979 in Germany)
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 13th Oct 18, 9:25 PM
    • 30,140 Posts
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    Mojisola
    Would it be ok if I pm'd you?
    Originally posted by eamon
    Certainly.
    • CRANKY40
    • By CRANKY40 14th Oct 18, 4:29 PM
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    CRANKY40
    I have full international Ancestry membership if I can help at all. Hopefully Mojisola can sort it for you though
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