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    • dementia_barclays
    • By dementia_barclays 12th Oct 18, 11:08 PM
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    dementia_barclays
    Barclays taking house off 76yr old with Dementia, as Interest Only Mortgage has expired
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 18, 11:08 PM
    Barclays taking house off 76yr old with Dementia, as Interest Only Mortgage has expired 12th Oct 18 at 11:08 PM
    My mum has had a mortgage for 45 years. It represents 17% of it's value.
    They don't want to continue it, once it reached the end of it's term, even after agreeing to continue it in May of this year. We only get to know a repossession court date is due on 30th of this month, 10 days ago. Barclays know she was staying with me over summer and it was only a neighbour checking post, that alerted us.
    (Barclays has made it very difficult for me to assist my mum on the issue)

    They wanted a message from the doctor, which they got, now they changed their mind and want a more formal letter via the post. Before 'possibly' reconsidering.

    Her rate was/is a minimum of 5% and went higher when rates increased recently. So they are earning well from her. Plus she paid off two loans they sold her, to pay off overdrafts, they kept letting her fill up! Until we asked them to stop. Both stink of miss selling.

    The impact of this will worry her, cause her to fear leaving her home and disrupt her recuperation with us. An effort that took her from being skin and bones, close to death (even with carers/social workers visiting), to eating and being more healthy.
Page 2
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 13th Oct 18, 7:04 PM
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    badmemory
    The biggest problem with this is that they will take it & sell it at auction & they will only need to reach 17% of its actual value. That is all they need to make to clear the debt. They do tend to make sure that there is nothing left after they have taken their cut.


    So someone is going to get a bargain & all her neighbours houses will be devalued.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 13th Oct 18, 7:05 PM
    • 5,281 Posts
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    csgohan4
    Hers goes up (not fixed), gone up approx half a percent this month
    But only goes down to 5% (minimum rate)
    Sounds like a 'fixed minimum rate mortgage'

    Won't have time to sell house, if they take it from her in 17 days
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    So the bank repoed the house already?? If that is the case, could have mentioned in the First post

    however the family have had sometime to sort this dilemma out and not leave it last minute and hope for the bank's mercy and not pay up on time.


    On a side note, Barclays are not mind readers and whether a customer has x medical condition, they still need to pay up when the mortgage is drawn in, hence long term plans such as selling the house would be reasonable to pay off the mortgage.

    Pretty much everything has been covered above in earlier posts.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 13th Oct 18, 11:16 PM
    • 11,845 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    79K mortgage. Sure... but communicating, especially co-operating with relatives when a client has Dementia, could reduce many issues. Privacy apart. Even a text message that a DD has failed or been cancelled, would help.

    Let alone, after being accepted on the account, an email or call to say... we are stealing your property in 30 days!
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    How do they know patient had dementia without going through a formal process? A phone call or email isn't going to cut it, it would need to be a written letter so they have an audit trail. And how do they know its the right relatives? What if its a chancer whose taken iver amd is ripping granny off? There's a lot of that about at the moment. Ideally it should be someone with POA they delegate to.
    You'd be rightly aggrieved if another relative was doing stuff on the account maybe setting up new loans or whatever. They are not in an easy position, you've just looked at it from your POV. If you worked in the bank and someone called up and said they were now managing auntie madges accounts and wanted all alerts in the sent to a new phone and use a new address for letters and statements would you just take their word for it ?

    And of course they aren't "stealing your property" at alll, they are getting their loan back. If you provide the loan amount, job done. Whereas you want to hold on to it indefinitely. And it's not beyond the bounds of possibility Barclays will let it stand.
    What happens if they do and mum is still alive in 2025? Will you be back for another bite at the cherry? Planning on death to solve your financial problems doesn't really seem like the best plan. Can you find a nice small flat where mum might feel happier and persuade her to move ? I had to wok on my mum for a year before she saw sense to move soemwhere where she was safe.

    Would your mum recognize her house now ? I know someone who moved parents furniture and pictures into a room in a care home, they never noticed.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 14-10-2018 at 7:54 AM.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • dementia_barclays
    • By dementia_barclays 14th Oct 18, 3:38 AM
    • 16 Posts
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    dementia_barclays
    Is this forum sponsored by the banks?
    Is this forum sponsored by the banks?
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 14th Oct 18, 4:50 AM
    • 13,108 Posts
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    fatbelly
    Is this forum sponsored by the banks?
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    No. Although the mortgage board can sometimes seem less supportive than say the debt free wanabee board, I don't see that here. Dunstonh put it well

    The responses on the thread are likely to be focused and without emotion. Nobody else here has any emotional attachment to this and is looking at the cold hard facts. So, don't take the responses negatively. They are purely to keep it short and understandable without having to write paragraphs to wrap you up in cotton wool.
    Now I detect some confusion in the later posts. You said that there is a hearing on the 30th. I take it that this is the first time it has been before a judge.

    He/she will listen to constructive proposals, such as an ongoing sale, evidenced, or equity release, evidenced as progressing. Failing that, the default option is outright possession in 30 days. You don't (often) lose possession instantly. It will be seen as significant that she is not living in the house.

    There will then (after possession expires) be a bailiff warrant giving a date when a bailiff will remove anyone living there and oversee the locks being changed. This can take many months and the warrant itself can be suspended if there are grounds.

    Finally the sale will net less than the usual market price, and there will be extra costs. This will not usually be alarmingly different from a sale where you have control, but you will get less. When I used to advise on a court desk we used a rule of thumb of 10% less.

    So it really does make economic sense to actively sort the sale process yourself, as early as possible.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Oct 18, 7:25 AM
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    getmore4less
    Hidden in all the verbosity

    My mum has had a mortgage for 45 years. It represents 17% of it's value.
    They don't want to continue it, once it reached the end of it's term, even after agreeing to continue it in May of this year. We only get to know a repossession court date is due on 30th of this month, 10 days ago. .
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    Thanks Thrugelmir

    No... but if they align that one mortgage to her other which ends in 2025, she is likely to have passed on. Meaning its sale will repay their 17%

    She is Scottish... wiry & stubborn,
    so will never willingly go into a home or relinquish control

    Hopefully Barclays will see sense
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    You need a plan of action to get this postponed if you do nothing then the repo will most likely go ahead.

    Hoping Barclays see sense is not enough you need to be proactive with a realistic proposal.

    You have a chance to go and explain how you and mum plan to deal with this to avoid a repo.

    What are the details of these two mortgages.
    Rate, term, amount, payment.

    any non payments on either of them.

    Enough income to pay them.

    Can you increase the payments or raise capital another way.

    The details of the mortgages may help with a proposal.


    Also looking ahead what are the plans for the property.

    If the plan was to sell anyway this repo may be a solution as it appears currently you can't sell if mum has dementia and having a property sit empty won't be cheap.

    If the plan is to keep it then you could start that process by selling up and if you have enough equity pay off the mortgage you move in with mum and she spends her time left in her own home.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th Oct 18, 8:04 AM
    • 11,845 Posts
    • 13,810 Thanks
    AnotherJoe

    So it really does make economic sense to actively sort the sale process yourself, as early as possible.
    Originally posted by fatbelly

    This is the catch 22 that the OP and her mum have gotten themselves into.

    Mum wont sell and is determined not to, so wont sign papers to sell house, OP cant sell as she has no POA to do so (nor does she wish to as she thinks it will affect mum adversely although mum isnt living in mums house at the moment anyway)
    OP wants to embarrass Barclays into just continuing IO mortgage indefinitely (thats possible I suppose although the fact its got to a court hearing isnt hopeful) though its unclear if house will remain empty even if so.

    OPs best bet if she cant/wont force/persuade mum to sell mums house is raise money on OPs house (sell or remortgage) and use that to clear both mortgages on mums house. This seems pointless unless OP moves mum back into mums house along with OP, (and then theres the issue of OPs house. Would that be empty then?)
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Oct 18, 8:26 AM
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    getmore4less
    ....
    They don't want to continue it, once it reached the end of it's term, even after agreeing to continue it in May of this year.

    We only get to know a repossession court date is due on 30th of this month, 10 days ago....
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    There would have been more communication in the 4-5 months(May to Oct).

    Barclays won't have gone from "we will extend" to "court date" without something, there is a process to follow.

    When were the pre action letter sent and the application made?
    • Bimbly
    • By Bimbly 14th Oct 18, 10:00 AM
    • 147 Posts
    • 130 Thanks
    Bimbly
    There would have been more communication in the 4-5 months(May to Oct).

    Barclays won't have gone from "we will extend" to "court date" without something, there is a process to follow.

    When were the pre action letter sent and the application made?
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    It appears from earlier post that correspondence wasn't received due to not living at the house, and neighbour alerted them.

    Agree with earlier posts. Get a plan in place to repay the mortgage, whether that be selling, equity release (quickest?), re-mortgaging with OP as a guarantor etc. Present this to Barclays or the judge and there's a liklihood the situation can be saved.

    It is upsetting and many people have been caught out this way, but giving the bank a solution is the way forward.
    • financegeek
    • By financegeek 14th Oct 18, 6:07 PM
    • 85 Posts
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    financegeek
    Dementia is a horrid disease so you have my complete sympathy there OP. From the loved ones I've known who suffered with it, they can generally hide the extent of it well and refuse to relinquish control, as in their mind it's akin to admitting that they have the disease.

    At some point you're going to have to discuss it with your mother as the court date is soon (or has happened? which isn't clear). I know you've said it'll be difficult to discuss with her, but this isn't a problem where ignoring Barclays / the letters etc is going to make it go away, so better to have the conversation sooner rather than later.

    Any inaction will only work to Barclays benefit. As other posters have said repossession is expensive, so needs to be avoided where ever possible. She must have realised when taking out the mortgage, or if not from the letters sent in recent years, that it would need to be repaid. Dementia is horrific, but I can't see a court allowing your mother to continue residing there / with the mortgage when other options are available to her (although i could be proved wrong here as i am not a lawyer!).

    it's unclear at what stage of dementia / COPD your mother is at, but power of attorney is definitely something you should be looking at either for now, or getting it set up so it can be triggered at the point she loses capacity.

    Dementia aside, Barclays will be viewing it from an economic perspective. For a £76,000.00 mortgage at 5.5% that's an annual income from your mother of £4,180.00 approximately (not counting any charges they're applying) which makes an argument for Barclays leaving the mortgage in place for their benefit pretty null and void.

    Your mother could potentially live for another 20+ years and Barclays are unlikely to extend the term indefinitely. Your mother won't qualify for another mortgage with them, so you need to start working on a solution as soon as possible if she wants to stay in her own home.

    as others have mentioned above, the options that spring to mind are as follows:

    1. You remortgage your property and pay off your mothers mortgage.
    2. You purchase your mothers property (beware inheritance tax / deprivation of assets)
    3. Your mother takes out equity release
    4. You sell your property and use the proceeds to pay off your mothers mortgage?

    if i were you i'd be speaking to a solicitor / financial / mortgage adviser to fully explore all potential options and work out a way forwards. The court / Barclays are also more likely to delay repossession proceedings if you're working on a solution.

    I hope the above doesn't come across as harsh as it's really not meant to. Dementia is difficult to deal with at the best of times, so i bet Barclays are the last thing you want to be dealing with while trying to support your mother. whatever happens i hope you get it sorted without too much distress to your mother.

    good luck x
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 14th Oct 18, 6:23 PM
    • 7,389 Posts
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    enthusiasticsaver
    79K mortgage. Sure... but communicating, especially co-operating with relatives when a client has Dementia, could reduce many issues. Privacy apart. Even a text message that a DD has failed or been cancelled, would help.

    Let alone, after being accepted on the account, an email or call to say... we are stealing your property in 30 days!
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    I don't think it is fair to say they are stealing the property. Your mum took out a mortgage and made no plans to repay it within agreed time frame. The property is security for that loan so they are using whatever legal means are at their disposal. When you say it will be repossessed in 30 days has this already gone to court or is the court hearing at the end of the month?

    I would persist in communicating with the bank and get the doctors evidence they are asking for. Has your mum been assessed for dementia and got a firm diagnosis?

    Ideally for anyone reading this thread with elderly relatives this is where a POA comes in useful as this could have been pre empted.

    Dementia is awful so I feel for you but I am not sure Barclays have been left with any other option. Are payments up to date? Having heard from a friend recently who is much younger than your mum but in the same position in that when her and her ex DH divorced they cashed in endowment policies and now remaining mortgage is interest only. She di£ not tell the bank that. She is relying on inheritance to pay it off which seems dodgy in the extreme. I am not sure why people think they should take out loans with definite expiry date and not think how they will repay. Thankfully interest only mortgages are rarely approved these days but I am sure there are many in your mums position.
    Debt free and mortgage free and early retiree. Living the dream

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Oct 18, 8:06 PM
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    getmore4less
    It appears from earlier post that correspondence wasn't received due to not living at the house, and neighbour alerted them.
    ...
    Originally posted by Bimbly
    Mail should be checked regularly

    4 weeks max between checks unless totally on top of finances.

    The dates of corrispondence is important to check if the correct process has been followed
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 14th Oct 18, 10:00 PM
    • 61,312 Posts
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    Thrugelmir
    The biggest problem with this is that they will take it & sell it at auction & they will only need to reach 17% of its actual value. That is all they need to make to clear the debt. They do tend to make sure that there is nothing left after they have taken their cut.


    So someone is going to get a bargain & all her neighbours houses will be devalued.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Utter nonsense. There's a procedure followed to ensure that the property achieves it's best possible selling price. Lenders have a duty of care towards the mortgagor. Members of the Council of Mortgage Lenders have an agreed protocol in such circumstances. All major UK lenders belong to the CML.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 14th Oct 18, 10:17 PM
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    Thrugelmir
    Is this forum sponsored by the banks?
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    However much we empathasise with the personal side of the story. That serves little benefit. Certainly doesn't help with the contractual breach of terms that's occured. Nor that correspondence from the lender has been ignored for some time in the hope that they will simply go away.

    We can only respond to what get's posted as well. Many of us have worked in our respective fields for many a year. Seen and heard it all before. Therefore work on the basis that not all the relevant information has been forthcoming. People understandably are economical with the truth.

    Rather than fight the lender and attempting to assign blame elsewhere. Put your mother first and do what's best for her. As her condition isn't going to improve. Having a friend that developed a serious form of dementia at 56 (forget where she left her car on several occasions). I know how debilitating the disease can be.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • Mortgage_Adviser
    • By Mortgage_Adviser 25th Oct 18, 4:05 PM
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    • 80 Thanks
    Mortgage_Adviser
    OP, why don't you remortgage (eg equity release/life tiem mortgage) to a different lender which would guarantee she can stay in the property for the rest of her days without having to pay any monthly payments?


    Why make the life complicated there when there is an easy-ish solution?
    • Partridge89
    • By Partridge89 25th Oct 18, 4:11 PM
    • 50 Posts
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    Partridge89
    Doesn't she have to be of sound mind to take a Lifetime mortgage?
    • dementia_barclays
    • By dementia_barclays 25th Oct 18, 4:13 PM
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    • 3 Thanks
    dementia_barclays
    Whilst there is a chance, it won't me more costly than the current 5% minimum, she cannot sign an equity release/life time mortgage with dementia, surely?
    (involving her would kill her/ruin her improvement from a skeleton)

    And no time to take control, against her will. Court date is days away (next Tuesday).

    Barclays not taking a Dementia/COPD sufferer house, for 17% mortgage, is the only immediate hope.

    Especially after blocking any help from me and miss selling her a bad mortgage deal, loans and overdrafts!
    Last edited by dementia_barclays; 25-10-2018 at 4:35 PM.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 25th Oct 18, 4:23 PM
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    Thrugelmir
    Especially after blocking any help from me and miss selling her a bad loan deal, loans and overdrafts!
    Originally posted by dementia_barclays
    There's more to the story then. I would be cautious of blaming the lender for everything.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • dementia_barclays
    • By dementia_barclays 25th Oct 18, 4:34 PM
    • 16 Posts
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    dementia_barclays
    More to story (you again!)...
    yes, they make it incredibly difficult to prevent someone with Dementia being sold products/mess up their affairs
    or for the only family member to even know there is a problem.

    (know it's not personal to me, as you appear to be suggesting, as they treat all with this illness equally badly)
    • financegeek
    • By financegeek 25th Oct 18, 5:10 PM
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    financegeek
    I understand she's not well, but whatever happens she's going to have to be involved.

    is she aware there's a court date next Tuesday? what if they're granted repossession? Do you also intend to keep this from her?

    Hoping they'll have some heart and not repossess isn't necessarily going to be a winning strategy unfortunately. Surely it's better to tackle now and resolve, before time runs out and her home is lost?
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