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  • FIRST POST
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 12th Oct 18, 7:45 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    CaptainRandomName
    Gladstones County Court Claim Form
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:45 PM
    Gladstones County Court Claim Form 12th Oct 18 at 7:45 PM
    Hello All,

    I'm aware I've left this somewhat late and have about 7 days left to submit my defence paperwork to the online portal. I have read the very helpful guide a few weeks back on acknowledgement of service but I'm somewhat overwhelmed by the information available now when trying to structure a defence.

    I did find a lady in a similar situation when I started, however I cannot for the life of me find that threat again. Anyway, my story is that I had a courtesy car after dropping mine at the garage one lunch time and parked it in my old companies allocated bay on a business park in a multistory. Usually there would be a permit in my window, however as I had a courtesy car, there was not. Signage doesn't state that a permit had to be displayed either, only "associated permit holders only" and I owned a valid permit and had the permission of my company to park there.

    The courtesy car was obvious too, with the name of the garage stuck all over it. I came back to the car after work to find a penalty charge and tried to write back to the UK Car Park Management about why I shouldn't have to pay as it costs them nothing, and I was in my work bay, and their signage doesn't state i need to display a permit. They just proceeded to ignore the facts and tell me signage states a permit must be displayed (They actually changed the signage to add on a sticker that said a permit must be displayed shortly after my letters)

    Anyway here we are, almost 2 years down the line and I'm facing court. I've tried to appeal to the land owners too, however they just seem to be in on it with the parking firm and have no intentions to help.

    Any help would be much appreciated. Do you think i have a chance?

    Thanks,
    Random
    Last edited by CaptainRandomName; 12-10-2018 at 7:53 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    • 19,663 Posts
    • 24,955 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    no idea, but as you are defending then continue, only a judge can decide, if it gets that far (we would need all the facts, like pics of the signs, the unredacted landowner contract , the NTK (PCN) and how long it took to arrive , all kinds of legal facts to determine your case, as would a judge)

    post your DATE OF ISSUE and the exact POC below

    send an SAR for all the evidence like docs and pics etc

    then read recent defences , including ones written or honed by member BARGEPOLE

    then post your proposed draft defence below for critique
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Oct 18, 8:05 PM
    • 9,930 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:05 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:05 PM
    Please also tell us exactly when you did the Acknowledgement of Service.
    .
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 12th Oct 18, 8:43 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    CaptainRandomName
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:43 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:43 PM
    Hi Guys,

    Firstly, thank you for your help.

    I am away this weekend and most likely will not be able to reply until Sunday. I will be sure to look in to Bargepole's thread upon m,y return. Please could you tell me what a POC is? I already have images etc on the first letter they sent me, but not land owner contract.

    The date of issue was 16/09/16 and the date of AOS would have been 23/09/18

    Thanks,
    Random
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 18, 8:48 PM
    • 19,663 Posts
    • 24,955 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:48 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 18, 8:48 PM
    please read posts #2 and #5 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread near the top of this forum, second thread down
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 13th Oct 18, 5:51 AM
    • 3,664 Posts
    • 5,998 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:51 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:51 AM
    One of the points you'll need to look at is "what contract did the driver breach". Were they the ones that came with the permit or are they the ones on the signs?

    As this is a permit issue, it is on balance better to reveal the name of the person with the contractual rights to park there. When you got the permit initially what were the terms / what was the understanding about it's use.

    Also what you'll be trying to do is to show why the Beavis case does not apply here. The Beavis case is all about punishing the "free parking brigade" - those that will dump their car or overstay their welcome. You did neither so the 100 charge should fail - unless you have a grumpy judge.

    So check which contract and work on Beavis not applying.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 13-10-2018 at 6:16 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 16th Oct 18, 7:43 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CaptainRandomName
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 18, 7:43 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 18, 7:43 PM
    Right, I'm back online and in typical me fashion I have left things quite late. Work has been getting in the way but I'm going to research the points above suggested by redx and I'll update you all after.

    BR,
    Random
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Oct 18, 7:51 PM
    • 9,930 Posts
    • 10,235 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 16th Oct 18, 7:51 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Oct 18, 7:51 PM
    Please can you post the Date of Issue on your Claim Form?
    .
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 16th Oct 18, 7:55 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    CaptainRandomName
    • #9
    • 16th Oct 18, 7:55 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Oct 18, 7:55 PM
    I am ..... so happy. I've managed to stumble across the thread for the issue that matched mine, the thread I lost. Bargepole has been kind enough to formulate a response for the individual and post it in it's own section. I will attempt to edit it to fit my charges etc.

    I will post back.

    Thanks,
    Random
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 16th Oct 18, 7:56 PM
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    CaptainRandomName
    Certainly, it was the 19th Sept 2018.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Oct 18, 8:00 PM
    • 9,930 Posts
    • 10,235 Thanks
    KeithP
    Certainly, it was the 19th Sept 2018.
    Originally posted by CaptainRandomName
    With a Claim Issue Date of 19th September, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 22nd October 2018 to file your Defence.

    That's quite close. Please don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 16th Oct 18, 8:22 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    CaptainRandomName
    Keith, Thank you very much!

    Everyone, please see my draft below, which is an slightly edited version of the original events to reflect that I was the driver and not the registered keeper, as it was a courtesy car.

    I do somehow need to bring attention to the fact that signage stated "corresponding permit holders only" and not anything about a permit being displayed. Where do I list myself as a witness and mention all the ancillary documentation / evidence i have, such as pictures of the signage or letters written.

    Do I include letters written to them stating I had a write to park there as I had a permit and their flagrant disregard of the facts replying with "signage states permits must be displayed?"

    I also feel like it's important to make reference to the fact they didn't actually send me any mail leading up to the court claim form, except for debt recovery letters ofc at my old address. The first I knew of court proceedings was a warning text and I had to go through their "data protection officer" to update my address and I still didn't get letters after this, just the final court claim form. If i'm correct they're supposed to send something before the court claim letter?

    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: XXXXXX

    BETWEEN:

    UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD (Claimant)

    -and-

    XXXXXX (Defendant)

    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXXXX, of which the Defendant was the driver, and a courtesy car, was parked on the material date in a marked bay allocated to Company XXXXXX at XXXXXXX, and the driver had a valid permit to be parked in that bay.

    3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant !!!8220;was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle(s)!!!8221;. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

    4. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    5. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. They merely state that vehicles must be parked correctly within their allocated parking bay, giving no definition of the term 'correctly parked', nor indicating which bays are allocated to whom.

    6. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

    7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    8. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 100. The claim includes an additional 60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    9. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Oct 18, 8:34 PM
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    KeithP
    Shouldn't para 5 perhaps mention something about "signage states permits must be displayed"? Or is it "associated permit holders only"?

    In para 3, replace !!!8220; and !!!8221; with quotation marks.
    .
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 16th Oct 18, 8:53 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CaptainRandomName
    You're probably right I should edit that para for the facts and thanks for pointing out the !!!8220; I assumed it was a reference to some law lol. I've found a more up to date post by locating the original thread. I've update para 7 to reflect the permit assigned to myself as an employee as opposed to the original statement that was focused on the vehicle having a permit, as I was in a courtesy car at the time.

    I have a couple of queries now:

    1) How do i enter a counter claim for the day of work to attend court, petrol costs, personal time to create a defence and post / draft message and speak to their DPO to change my address. Is this all viable and is it a standardised hourly rate?

    2) How do I include myself as a witness and include all of the supporting evidence to be seen in court e.g. pics of signage etc.

    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:

    UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXXXX, of which the Defendant was the driver, and a courtesy car, was parked on the material date in a marked bay allocated to Company XXXXXX at XXXXXXX, and the driver had a valid permit to be parked in that bay.

    3. The Claimant has failed to issue a Letter Before Action, or provided any details of the claim prior to issuing a claim at court. As such, the Claimant has failed to comply with the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols, para 6 (a) & (c). (Seems like they did the same to this poor lady)

    4. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant “was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle(s)”. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16, 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

    5. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    6. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the Claimant’s signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. They merely state that vehicles must be parked correctly within their allocated parking bay, giving no definition of the term 'correctly parked'. The signage gave no requirement to display the valid parking permit.

    7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that the Driver did not have a valid permit to be parked in that bay.

    8. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would need to stand directly in front of a dangerous access ramp with poor visibility. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

    9. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    10. The Notice To Keeper does not specify the period of parking, as required by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, Section 8 (2)(a)&(b) and therefore cannot hold the keeper liable.

    11. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 100. The claim includes an additional 60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    12. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to Civil Procedure Rules 3.4.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

    Name
    Signature
    Date

    Thank you all again,
    Random,
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Oct 18, 8:59 PM
    • 9,930 Posts
    • 10,235 Thanks
    KeithP
    I have a couple of queries now:

    1) How do i enter a counter claim for the day of work to attend court, petrol costs, personal time to create a defence and post / draft message and speak to their DPO to change my address. Is this all viable and is it a standardised hourly rate?

    2) How do I include myself as a witness and include all of the supporting evidence to be seen in court e.g. pics of signage etc.
    Originally posted by CaptainRandomName
    1) You don't enter a counterclaim for your costs. You supply a Costs Schedule to the court (and Claimant) later in the process.

    2) Witness statement and evidence comes later.


    For both these issues you need to read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread in greater detail than you appear to have done so far.


    In fact, before asking any question it is probably a good idea to look in the NEWBIES thread to see if it has already been answered.
    .
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 16th Oct 18, 11:15 PM
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    CaptainRandomName
    Now that I have got through the immediate stress and have a few more days on hand, I shall be sure to go back and read through the Newbies FAQ more thoroughly

    Thanks,
    Random
    • CaptainRandomName
    • By CaptainRandomName 18th Oct 18, 12:13 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CaptainRandomName
    Hi guys,

    Could I please check that my defence statement above seems reasonable? If so I will submit it tomorrow to email address suggested after printing and signing

    Thanks,
    Random
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