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  • FIRST POST
    • DesmondT
    • By DesmondT 11th Oct 18, 10:40 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 3Thanks
    DesmondT
    Patisserie Valerie
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 18, 10:40 PM
    Patisserie Valerie 11th Oct 18 at 10:40 PM
    Hello
    I'm unfortunate to have a significant shareholding in PV via my SIPP. I did my research, studied the books (via Stockopedia), understood the business and invested a modest proportion of my fund over the last. year. All the indications were that this was a stable, low risk company with good growth potential. It now appears that there may have been some fraudulent accounting and at the very least it looks like the auditors were negligent.

    My question is, assuming that the Company goes into administration, what steps can I take to recover what are likely to be significant loses? If I own these shares through a SIPP (in my case Hargreaves Lansdowne) am I still able to bring an action as a shareholder? In general do I have any come-back on this?

    Thanks for any input.
Page 4
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 13th Oct 18, 10:04 PM
    • 3,394 Posts
    • 2,725 Thanks
    Alexland
    Yes but their market is saturated.
    Originally posted by Glen Clark
    In this country there seems to be a huge market for people sitting around doing nothing but slurping on expensive coffee and eating cake. I was in Costa today (using up Zeek TopCashBack credit on a Frostino and getting the free Babyccinno for my son) and the place was rammed with punters. Most of them seemed to be paying with real money.

    Alex
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 13th Oct 18, 10:09 PM
    • 11,786 Posts
    • 8,302 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    I like to think I'm well informed but I never heard of these people.

    Suddenly news headlines everywhere - am I living under a rock?!
    Originally posted by bxboards
    They used to do very decent croissants. Do they still?

    You obviously don't remember Maxwell publishing then. How complex and sophisticated the fraud was to deceive the auditors.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    Part of the fraud was to open the company safe and extract share certificates that belonged to the pension funds.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Oct 18, 10:20 PM
    • 60,221 Posts
    • 53,557 Thanks
    Thrugelmir

    Part of the fraud was to open the company safe and extract share certificates that belonged to the pension funds.
    Originally posted by kidmugsy
    There were some 170 subsidiary companies set-up around the globe. With varying year ends. A Treasury department would move cash around the subsidiaries. So that at the time of the audit of any group company. The subsidiary would be cash solvent. In reality the cash had been siphoned out of the group.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 14th Oct 18, 10:30 AM
    • 4,245 Posts
    • 3,263 Thanks
    Glen Clark
    In this country there seems to be a huge market for people sitting around doing nothing but slurping on expensive coffee and eating cake. I was in Costa today (using up Zeek TopCashBack credit on a Frostino and getting the free Babyccinno for my son) and the place was rammed with punters. Most of them seemed to be paying with real money.

    Alex
    Originally posted by Alexland
    In some areas yes. But over expansion has led them to open branches where they should not have done. Whilst high rents is a double whammy - both directly, and indirectly as it leaves their customers with less disposable income.
    Opening branches where they shouldn't has put the management under pressure to save face by pretending they are profitable. Perhaps in the mistaken belief they will become profitable before anyone notices. Or maybe just to keep the party going and put off the day of reckoning as long as possible.
    Last edited by Glen Clark; 14-10-2018 at 10:34 AM.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. --Upton Sinclair
    • thrifty_pete
    • By thrifty_pete 14th Oct 18, 10:45 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    thrifty_pete
    In this country there seems to be a huge market for people sitting around doing nothing but slurping on expensive coffee and eating cake.
    Originally posted by Alexland
    I think this will be the future, a high street filled with cafes, restaurants and the odd clothing shop. Given the trivial cost of making coffee with a self service machine, I hope before long free coffee will come with every purchase in every shop, just like the free coffee and newspaper in Waitrose. I suggested Nationwide put free coffee machines in every branch at one of their online focus groups, but they ignored it. I think I'd be happy to be sold a financial product as I slurped the coffee. It would be a win-win for everyone.
    • TrustyOven
    • By TrustyOven 14th Oct 18, 11:37 PM
    • 712 Posts
    • 746 Thanks
    TrustyOven
    I suggested Nationwide put free coffee machines in every branch at one of their online focus groups, but they ignored it. I think I'd be happy to be sold a financial product as I slurped the coffee. It would be a win-win for everyone.
    Originally posted by thrifty_pete



    Haha you just reminded me of a quote from the film You've Got Mail:



    Joe Fox: Because we're going to sell them cheap books and legal addictive stimulants.
    Goals
    Save 12k in 2017 #016 (4212.06 / 10k) (42.12%)
    Save 12k in 2016 #041 (4558.28 / 6k) (75.97%)
    Save 12k in 2014 #192 (4115.62 / 5k) (82.3%)
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 14th Oct 18, 11:55 PM
    • 11,786 Posts
    • 8,302 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    I think this will be the future, a high street filled with cafes, restaurants and the odd clothing shop.
    Originally posted by thrifty_pete
    Shoe shops - I've always said I can't imagine attempting to buy shoes online. An offspring mocked me for this and ordered me a pair of trainers - didn't fit, back they went. What a bonkers way to shop.

    Books, fine. Even shirts or, at a pinch, trousers. But shoes?

    Anyway, coffee and cake shops - I imagine the point is social, isn't it? Meet for a natter? And display your new trainers?
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 15th Oct 18, 5:59 AM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 893 Thanks
    Apodemus
    Is there not a more fundamental problem that, in the Service sector, it is far from certain that a small, private company with an excellent product and great service can make the transition to a bigger, public company without dumbing down the product and losing the focus on service? Add in the classic cash-flow problems of a Company trying to expand too fast, simply to please the new investors and you have a car-crash waiting to happen.

    I was very impressed with PV the couple of times I went there and had a look at the IPO, but reckoned the chances of it making the transition were poor. I hope it recovers and proves me wrong!
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Oct 18, 9:40 AM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 7,711 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Shoe shops - I've always said I can't imagine attempting to buy shoes online. An offspring mocked me for this and ordered me a pair of trainers - didn't fit, back they went. What a bonkers way to shop.
    Originally posted by kidmugsy
    Takes five minutes to repackage it and send it back. Then you order another one which hopefully fits. Total time to buy shoes - however long it takes you to find something that looks good online (maximum half an hour if you're really fussy), plus five minutes per failed attempt. How long does it take to get to a high street, try some shoes on, stand in a queue, and then come back? An hour at least, more likely two.

    My partner gets most of their clothing this way and once you're used to the merry-go-round of parcels it's highly efficient.

    Obviously it takes much longer to get a pair of shoes that fits, but as long as you haven't waited until they're actually letting in the rain (which no self-respecting millennial would) and your need isn't urgent, the important thing is that you lose much less of your precious life doing the deliveryman's job.

    Is there not a more fundamental problem that, in the Service sector, it is far from certain that a small, private company with an excellent product and great service can make the transition to a bigger, public company without dumbing down the product and losing the focus on service?
    by Apodemus
    Are we talking about any company in particular? I thought we were talking about Patisserie Valerie, the Nando's of cakes.

    Make a load of cheap cakes that would come dead last in a Rainbows baking competition in any village in Devon, pick a pretentious name, gear the living daylights out of it, IPO and cash out a load of money, then stick your hand in the till and extract another load of money before the business gets found out, either by customers or by creditors. Excellent business plan.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 15th Oct 18, 10:19 AM
    • 60,221 Posts
    • 53,557 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    My partner gets most of their clothing this way and once you're used to the merry-go-round of parcels it's highly efficient.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Not for the retailer though.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th Oct 18, 10:25 AM
    • 11,054 Posts
    • 12,729 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Not for the retailer though.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    Indeed. SWMBO ordered some clothes last week. It was free delivery over a certain sum, let's say 100. Her order came to about 75 so she simply added in another item to take it over the limit and then sent that back along with other stuff she didn't like after trying on.

    FWIW I bought shoes yesterday in an actual shop, but if I did buy online, I'd order multiple pairs of slightly different sizes rather than try them one ata time.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 15th Oct 18, 10:27 AM
    • 4,469 Posts
    • 5,859 Thanks
    waamo
    Shoe shops - I've always said I can't imagine attempting to buy shoes online. An offspring mocked me for this and ordered me a pair of trainers - didn't fit, back they went. What a bonkers way to shop.

    Books, fine. Even shirts or, at a pinch, trousers. But shoes?

    Anyway, coffee and cake shops - I imagine the point is social, isn't it? Meet for a natter? And display your new trainers?
    Originally posted by kidmugsy
    I've bought many a pair of shoes online and never had a problem with them fitting. It's an awful lot easier than going to some out of the way place to buy one item.
    This space for hire.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Oct 18, 10:52 AM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 7,711 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Not for the retailer though.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    It is compared to renting shops in prime locations and paying people to stand around in them for hours on end.

    Or so I assume. I have no inside knowledge of the sector. I am simply assuming that the people who run online shops aren't completely moronic.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th Oct 18, 10:56 AM
    • 11,054 Posts
    • 12,729 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    It is compared to renting shops in prime locations and paying people to stand around in them for hours on end.

    Or so I assume. I have no inside knowledge of the sector. I am simply assuming that the people who run online shops aren't completely moronic.
    Originally posted by Malthusian

    ah, you never did any work with Boo dot com then
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 15th Oct 18, 10:59 AM
    • 3,394 Posts
    • 2,725 Thanks
    Alexland
    I worked at JamJar.com and our office had seats which had a spike in the middle to keep us alert and looking like meerkats. My bottom was so sore at night. They were total idiots.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th Oct 18, 11:15 AM
    • 11,054 Posts
    • 12,729 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    I worked at JamJar.com and our office had seats which had a spike in the middle to keep us alert and looking like meerkats. My bottom was so sore at night. They were total idiots.
    Originally posted by Alexland

    Ha I forgot those. I think we bought a car from them, it was in the days of grey imports.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 15th Oct 18, 11:43 AM
    • 3,394 Posts
    • 2,725 Thanks
    Alexland
    Ha I forgot those. I think we bought a car from them, it was in the days of grey imports.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Mostly we were passing the job onto Dixons Motors and taking commission. The problem was the advertising was costing more and the sales volume was low. Still it was only a holiday job so not my problem.

    Alex
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 15th Oct 18, 12:11 PM
    • 11,786 Posts
    • 8,302 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    How long does it take to get to a high street, try some shoes on, stand in a queue, and then come back? An hour at least, more likely two
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    How long does it take to go to the post office with the parcels?

    And my need for trainers was sufficiently specialised in size that the idea of finding something promising in half an hour was hopelessly optimistic. I'll stick to shirts.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Oct 18, 2:07 PM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 7,711 Thanks
    Malthusian
    How long does it take to go to the post office with the parcels?
    Originally posted by kidmugsy
    Two minutes in the lunch hour in my case. While we are quite lucky, the general point is that there is a far higher density of Post Offices or other places you can drop off parcels with pre-printed returns labels than there is of shoe shops.

    It probably won't be too long before the zero-hours army will collect the stuff from your doorstep for little/no cost as well as dropping it off.
    • pafpcg
    • By pafpcg 15th Oct 18, 4:49 PM
    • 283 Posts
    • 262 Thanks
    pafpcg
    It probably won't be too long before the zero-hours army will collect the stuff from your doorstep for little/no cost as well as dropping it off.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    It's here already for customers of that online outfit which shares its name with a South American river. We booked a returns collection for the next day (they'd shipped an old obsolete version of what we'd ordered - cheeky blighters, did they think we wouldn't notice?), but the collection driver didn't turn up until two days later! The guy didn't seem surprised when I told him we'd cancelled the return and sent it back the day before using Royal Mail....
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