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    • Gagun
    • By Gagun 11th Oct 18, 10:28 PM
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    Gagun
    Void car insurance - pls help?
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 18, 10:28 PM
    Void car insurance - pls help? 11th Oct 18 at 10:28 PM
    Good evening,

    I need some urgent help/advice.

    I insured my dad on my car as the 2nd driver. My car has a black box and he was speeding, as a result of this, the insurance has been canceled.

    What can I do now? How will I get a new policy without having to pay thousands of pounds? Is there any way I can prove to the insurance company it wasn't me (I was abroad at the time) so I can either reinstate myself on the insurance as the only driver or not have to tell future insurers that I had a policy voided??

    Failing that, can we get insurance out in his name and have me as the 2nd driver?

    Really appreciate any help here!!!! Thank you!
Page 1
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 11th Oct 18, 10:48 PM
    • 5,817 Posts
    • 3,525 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 18, 10:48 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 18, 10:48 PM
    Have you told the insurer it was him? Has he admitted it? They cancelled the policy presumably because they thought it was you.


    You need to formally complain to the insurer about the cancellation and can refer to the FOS if the answer is unsatisfactory.


    Absolutely do not have him as a main driver and you as the named if you will be the main driver, that's fronting and will void your insurance
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Oct 18, 10:48 PM
    • 18,748 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 18, 10:48 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 18, 10:48 PM
    Insurers don't cancel black box policies for one single speeding incident. They give multiple warnings first. The policy is in your name, and it's been cancelled because you have failed to control how your car is driven by people covered on your insurance. If your father had stuffed your car, it's your policy that would have paid - and there's no way for the insurer to tell which driver was driving at the time.


    And, frankly, your father should have known better than to risk your insurance record, given that he knew that there was a box on the car. If you want to get angry at anybody here, he's the most appropriate target.



    If you're the main user of the car, then you being a named driver on his policy would be fraudulent - "fronting".
    • Gagun
    • By Gagun 11th Oct 18, 11:41 PM
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    Gagun
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 18, 11:41 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 18, 11:41 PM
    The only warning that was received was 1 text message that said the speed limit was breached today on the first day of speeding.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Oct 18, 11:42 PM
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    AdrianC
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 18, 11:42 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 18, 11:42 PM
    Which insurer?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 11th Oct 18, 11:46 PM
    • 4,479 Posts
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    waamo
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 18, 11:46 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 18, 11:46 PM
    The only warning that was received was 1 text message that said the speed limit was breached today on the first day of speeding.
    Originally posted by Gagun
    I'm not convinced they can notify you of insurance cancellation by text.
    This space for hire.
    • Gagun
    • By Gagun 12th Oct 18, 12:36 AM
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    Gagun
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 18, 12:36 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 18, 12:36 AM
    I’ve now received an email that says it will be cancelled in 7 days but prior to this the only warning was 1 text message.
    • Gagun
    • By Gagun 12th Oct 18, 12:39 AM
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    Gagun
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 18, 12:39 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 18, 12:39 AM
    Does anyone know if they have to / are able to give me the exact details of trips or speeds etc?

    TBH I know this is my problem to deal with, does anyone have experience with anything like this? I know arguing with an insurance company will be like like talking to a brick wall. My dad knows this is all him and is happy to tell them it was him and he will of course be removed from the insurance but he is convinced they’ll allow me to stay on?
    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 12th Oct 18, 6:33 AM
    • 579 Posts
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    angrycrow
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 18, 6:33 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 18, 6:33 AM
    Telling us who the broker/insurer are would help. Some of these schemes have a term in the policy that states two incidents of speeding at 30 mph or more above the limit will result in cancellation with 7 days notice. The terms also make it clear this term applies to all drivers on the policy.

    The data is yours and you are entitled to receive a copy of it. It is likely you already have an app to view the data.

    Speak to the insurer to confirm the terms of cancellation (not voidance). This is likely to fall outside of a cancellation which would need declaring to future insurers.
    • chrisw
    • By chrisw 12th Oct 18, 8:18 AM
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    chrisw
    Speak to the insurer to confirm the terms of cancellation (not voidance). This is likely to fall outside of a cancellation which would need declaring to future insurers.
    Originally posted by angrycrow
    There are no different classes of cancellation, this will need to be declared in the future as it's your policy, regardless of who was driving.

    Your best bet is to speak to the insurance company to see if they will either accept a change to your policy ie, remove your dad and continue the policy, or you cancel it before their cancellation kicks in, which might cost you, but avoid future problems.

    If the worst comes to the worst, there are specialist brokers who will help you get insurance despite a cancellation, but it's likely to be a bit more expensive.
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 12th Oct 18, 8:36 AM
    • 7,688 Posts
    • 6,241 Thanks
    daveyjp
    Which company are you covered with?

    A friend has a black box fitted and it became a liability when her mum's car was unavailable for an extended period.

    Her mums car was used for extended motorway trips at weekends (black box had a mileage restriction of 5,000 miles, she could do 200-500 every weekend) picking her up from a job in a gastropub (back box had an 11pm curfew) etc etc.
    • Gagun
    • By Gagun 12th Oct 18, 10:06 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    Gagun
    Really appreciate all this feed back thank you! I’m insured with Aviva PLC.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Oct 18, 10:16 AM
    • 18,748 Posts
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    AdrianC
    OK, so a quick look for Aviva's Ts and Cs for telematics found this - I don't know whether you bought through this broker or direct or what, but I doubt there's a significant difference.


    https://www.bewiser.co.uk/sites/default/files/Aviva%20Telematics%20Terms%20and%20Conditions%20pr e%20November%202017_0.pdf


    So the key points...
    * 50%+ above the speed limit = cancellation.
    * Driving information is recorded against policyholder not "alleged driver".
    * Score of -6 to -10 = "high risk", 4x "high risk" in 30 days = cancellation. (2x = monitoring, potential extra premium. 3x = 100 penalty, failure to pay = cancellation).


    It's all very clear, and named drivers are explicitly the policyholder's responsibility.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Oct 18, 11:01 AM
    • 5,049 Posts
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    DoaM
    So the key points...
    * 50%+ above the speed limit = cancellation.
    * Driving information is recorded against policyholder not "alleged driver".
    * Score of -6 to -10 = "high risk", 4x "high risk" in 30 days = cancellation. (2x = monitoring, potential extra premium. 3x = 100 penalty, failure to pay = cancellation)..
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Hopefully they didn't actually word it that way.

    (It's a contractual charge, not a penalty .. an insurance company has no lawful authority to apply a penalty).
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Ant555
    • By Ant555 12th Oct 18, 11:36 AM
    • 872 Posts
    • 347 Thanks
    Ant555
    Your best bet is to speak to the insurance company to see if they will either accept a change to your policy ie, remove your dad and continue the policy, or you cancel it before their cancellation kicks in, which might cost you, but avoid future problems.
    Originally posted by chrisw
    This is absolutely the best thing to do in my opinion, despite the cost
    We have a MoreThan SmartWheels black box and the rules are similar.

    I did think that if we got a cancellation notice we would cancel ourselves as my 18 year old son would be saddled with the potential burden of a cancelled policy for a long time as the question is usually 'have you EVER had insurance cancelled'

    How long have you had the policy?
    • AstroTurtle
    • By AstroTurtle 12th Oct 18, 2:37 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    AstroTurtle
    Hopefully they didn't actually word it that way.

    (It's a contractual charge, not a penalty .. an insurance company has no lawful authority to apply a penalty).
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Well a penalty definition is
    a punishment imposed for breaking a law, rule, or contract.

    And an insurance policy is a contract.

    However it depends on whether OP got the Aviva scheme direct or through another Insurer/Broker and Aviva is just the ultimate insurer as Aviva have a few telematics schemes floating around.
    Last edited by AstroTurtle; 12-10-2018 at 2:40 PM.
    • macman
    • By macman 12th Oct 18, 4:01 PM
    • 42,725 Posts
    • 17,990 Thanks
    macman
    So, was he doing 45 mph in a 30mph limit, or 105mph in a 70mph limit?
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Oct 18, 5:03 PM
    • 5,049 Posts
    • 4,971 Thanks
    DoaM
    Well a penalty definition is
    a punishment imposed for breaking a law, rule, or contract.
    Originally posted by AstroTurtle
    Definition from where?

    Under UK contract law it is not permissible for a company to apply penalty terms on a consumer, and I don't believe insurance contracts are excluded from this. (Business to business is a different matter)
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • deanos
    • By deanos 12th Oct 18, 5:41 PM
    • 10,852 Posts
    • 5,565 Thanks
    deanos
    I would ask exactly where the incident happened and check if the data is correct , these telematics have a habbit of recording duff data , i know as my work vehicle has telematics and its often wrong and have proved this myself many times eg saying its a 20 zone when its actually a 40 so that's twice the speed limit

    Another thing where it can cause wrong data is going down a dual carriageway which is 70 but has a side road running alongside which is a 30 for example it thinks you are on the 30 road not the dual carriageway
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