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    • Jt146
    • By Jt146 10th Oct 18, 9:03 PM
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    Jt146
    Points to my online licence
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 18, 9:03 PM
    Points to my online licence 10th Oct 18 at 9:03 PM
    Hi anyone,

    My other half has 12 points on his licence. Fortunately, the court did not ban him for the last 3. He drives everyday for his job, however the leniency came from him paying for my education fees. It was a good day (anyone can do it if you dress smart and are very humble - he’s 24, male and didn’t learn however)

    He had another speeding offence in Feb 2018, doing 76mph on a motorway through 50mph roadworks. This was actually before the other offence (by 1 day... 2 in 2 days!!!) which Is done and dusted, but this particular regions court administration whatever it is, is poor and ridiculously slow...

    We selected not to come to court as there is no chance he is getting out of this. They then sent another letting asking for us to select whether he would like to attend court or not. We ignored this as we had already selected and had enough time wasted already. The letter said to stop driving on October 3rd if he does not attend court until he hears further. I assumed this is because the court hearing would take place on that date. I emailed them a couple days later as there was no record of any changes on his online driving Licence. They then said the court hearing is October 10th (today) and stop driving from today - inaccurate info on the letter surprise surprise. Nothing on his licence yet.

    When are the points and disqualification and fine amount likely to appear on his online DVLA gov licence so we can finally get out of this stupid limbo period that has held us back for almost a year ?

    Any help on this would be appreciated.
Page 2
    • Jt146
    • By Jt146 11th Oct 18, 2:04 PM
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    Jt146
    His problems are my problems, his fines mine, team spirit. Fortunately his licence is not mine...

    If anyone is interested, they have again adjourned the case another month and have requested his attendance. I think this is because previously and very recently we have proved extreme hardship.

    I found this out by emailing them. Luckily I have one day annual leave left to get him there as I don’t think he’d be getting home on his own !

    Thanks for those that answered constructively!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Oct 18, 2:48 PM
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    AdrianC
    If anyone is interested, they have again adjourned the case another month and have requested his attendance. I think this is because previously and very recently we have proved extreme hardship.
    Originally posted by Jt146
    He will not be able to use that a second time.
    They are requesting his attendance because they will be reading him the riot act, prior to handing him a totting ban.


    Luckily I have one day annual leave left to get him there as I don’t think he’d be getting home on his own !
    Really? He'd better get used to the bus or walking, tbh, because he's going to be doing a lot of it over the next six months or so.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 11th Oct 18, 3:28 PM
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    Herzlos
    Yeah you really shouldn't need to burn a days annual leave to prevent him getting a bus back home - or are you going to be spending his entire ban driving him around?
    Last edited by Herzlos; 11-10-2018 at 3:34 PM.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Oct 18, 9:09 PM
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    Mercdriver
    AFAIK, you cannot select whether to attend or not, you have to attend court if you face disqualification, so the court can consider your case.
    If they do decided to disqualify you, then it is from that instant, and you can't even drive home.
    Originally posted by facade
    Looking at cases on pepipoo, the courts have started sending out notices of disqualification.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 11th Oct 18, 9:48 PM
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    Richard53
    But according to a lot of people on here, speed doesn't kill...
    Originally posted by Deastons
    It doesn't.
    It doesn't, per se ... inappropriate speed can kill.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Thank you.


    It's an important distinction, and not a hard concept to grasp.
    If someone is nice to you but rude to the waiter, they are not a nice person.
    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 12th Oct 18, 2:08 PM
    • 141 Posts
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    TooManyPoints
    Next time he's caught (because lets face it, on 15 points he's not going to learn),
    He won’t be on 15 points. When disqualified under “totting up” the driver's points tally reverts to zero.

    As far as disqualification in absence goes, the Sentencing Council’s guidance on the matter says this:

    When considering disqualification in absence the starting point should be that disqualification in absence should be imposed if there is no reason to believe the defendant is not aware of the proceedings, and after the statutory notice has been served pursuant to section 11(4) of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 where appropriate. Disqualification should not be imposed in absence where there is evidence that the defendant has an acceptable reason for not attending or where there are reasons to believe it would be contrary to the interests of justice to do so.

    In practice this means that the court must be satisfied that the defendant has been made aware of the proceedings, that he faces the possibility of disqualification and the court has not been made aware of any reason why he should not attend. If they are satisfied on those counts then they can disqualify him in his absence. Usually what happens is defendants are not routinely warned (from the outset) that they may be disqualified so an adjournment is necessary to allow for a notice with such a warning to be sent.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Oct 18, 4:56 PM
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    DoaM
    It's an important distinction, and not a hard concept to grasp.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    Indeed. But it's easier to enforce an arbitrary speed limit using machines ... anything else requires someone with judgment - and that means paying for someone.
    Diary of a madman
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    Entries of confusion
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    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Oct 18, 4:59 PM
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    DoaM
    He won’t be on 15 points. When disqualified under “totting up” the driver's points tally reverts to zero.
    Originally posted by TooManyPoints
    I think it was more "poetic licence" ... OP's partner is already on 12 points but got a reprieve from disqualification last time; this latest incident would effectively give him 15 points.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Oct 18, 5:15 PM
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    AndyMc.....
    He won’t be on 15 points. When disqualified under “totting up” the driver's points tally reverts to zero.

    As far as disqualification in absence goes, the Sentencing Council’s guidance on the matter says this:

    When considering disqualification in absence the starting point should be that disqualification in absence should be imposed if there is no reason to believe the defendant is not aware of the proceedings, and after the statutory notice has been served pursuant to section 11(4) of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 where appropriate. Disqualification should not be imposed in absence where there is evidence that the defendant has an acceptable reason for not attending or where there are reasons to believe it would be contrary to the interests of justice to do so.

    In practice this means that the court must be satisfied that the defendant has been made aware of the proceedings, that he faces the possibility of disqualification and the court has not been made aware of any reason why he should not attend. If they are satisfied on those counts then they can disqualify him in his absence. Usually what happens is defendants are not routinely warned (from the outset) that they may be disqualified so an adjournment is necessary to allow for a notice with such a warning to be sent.
    Originally posted by TooManyPoints


    He's on twelve and due another three, that makes 15 and therefore he'll be disqualified from holding or obtaining a licence.

    When his ban is up he'll be able to drive/reapply for a licence, which will have zero points for totting purposes. He will however still have the TT99 conviction code for the next four years.
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    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 12th Oct 18, 8:20 PM
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    Richard53
    Indeed. But it's easier to enforce an arbitrary speed limit using machines ... anything else requires someone with judgment - and that means paying for someone.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Very true - and I wouldn't argue against speed limits per se. In the current environment, they are an unfortunate necessity, and something we have to live with. However, that is not the same as saying that speed is dangerous in itself. It is not: as you correctly pointed out, it is speed in the wrong conditions that is the killer. As has been said before, 20 mph past a primary school at 3 pm may be more risky in terms of potential death and injury than 140 mph on an empty motorway in a suitable vehicle.


    IIRC, only about 1 in 7 of accidents is caused by excessive speed. The vast majority are because of 'failure to look', but of course the cure for that is better training, which costs money, etc etc.
    If someone is nice to you but rude to the waiter, they are not a nice person.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 12th Oct 18, 11:36 PM
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    Herzlos
    He won’t be on 15 points. When disqualified under “totting up” the driver's points tally reverts to zero.
    Originally posted by TooManyPoints

    What I mean is he'll have accumulated 15 points before the ban, which likely means 5 different 3 point offenses which haven't dropped off yet (so in the last 3 years).
    • Jt146
    • By Jt146 13th Oct 18, 12:15 AM
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    Jt146
    Points were 3 in Dec 2015 (35 in 30) and 6 points for more serious speeding (can’t remember how fast) June 2016, the most recent offences being 55mph in a 50mph dual carriage way - this was Wales so no leniency with the 10% + 2 rule. The outstanding offence was 76mph in a 50mph on a motorway at midnight East Midlands. I suspect 6 points to be issued and the ban, although I’m not sure that points are relevant as he’ll lose his licence and subsequently the points?
    • marlot
    • By marlot 13th Oct 18, 8:01 AM
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    marlot
    ...
    IIRC, only about 1 in 7 of accidents is caused by excessive speed. The vast majority are because of 'failure to look', but of course the cure for that is better training, which costs money, etc etc.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    I agree, and would love to see regular top-up training for drivers - perhaps every three years.


    But the OP's other half has picked up 15 points in less than three years. If they're that blase about picking up easy-to-avoid speeding tickets then I doubt the rest of their driving is up to much.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 13th Oct 18, 9:01 AM
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    Mercdriver
    Points were 3 in Dec 2015 (35 in 30) and 6 points for more serious speeding (can’t remember how fast) June 2016, the most recent offences being 55mph in a 50mph dual carriage way - this was Wales so no leniency with the 10% + 2 rule. The outstanding offence was 76mph in a 50mph on a motorway at midnight East Midlands. I suspect 6 points to be issued and the ban, although I’m not sure that points are relevant as he’ll lose his licence and subsequently the points?
    Originally posted by Jt146
    Wales does lee with enforcement from 10% +2mph - care to put up a redacted scan of the notice here and on pepipoo? This is pretty unheard of...
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 18th Oct 18, 1:16 AM
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    Ergates
    IIRC, only about 1 in 7 of accidents is caused by excessive speed. The vast majority are because of 'failure to look', but of course the cure for that is better training, which costs money, etc etc.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    Excessive speed is a contributing factor in about 11% of all injury accidents but about 24% of all fatal accidents. Those figures indicate that speeding makes accidents more serious - which is as expected. More speed = more energy = more destructive force.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/ras50-contributory-factors
    • Svein Forkbeard
    • By Svein Forkbeard 18th Oct 18, 7:23 AM
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    Svein Forkbeard
    But according to a lot of people on here, speed doesn't kill...
    Originally posted by Deastons
    Do you ever fly?
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    • Svein Forkbeard
    • By Svein Forkbeard 18th Oct 18, 7:28 AM
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    Svein Forkbeard
    He's on twelve and due another three,
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    More likely six!
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