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  • FIRST POST
    • haki
    • By haki 10th Oct 18, 5:15 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 2Thanks
    haki
    Ms
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 18, 5:15 PM
    Ms 10th Oct 18 at 5:15 PM
    I had a default CCJ issued against me. The reason for the default was, mainly on health grounds that did not enable me to attend the hearing, thus i was not able to defend the claim by Lowell, on behalf of 3G. I applied for CCJ to be set aside. At first it was refused. Second try, i was given a hearing date. Judge said, it could only be set aside on two grounds. 1st if medical, second, if i had a good chance of success. He said i had a good chance of success, but apparently letter from GP was insufficient as evidence! So now i need to appeal against the decision for refusal to set aside. There was no specific requirements that the judge asked in advance for the gp to write a letter. So the letter was firstly protecting me, secondly it was general. This is Lowell and Three G that went to court. Any advice, including which organisations out there can help me to appeal is highly appreciated, as i have no funds for solicitors. Winning this case, could be monumental because it would help hundreds of thousands of people who are being mistreated daily by mobile phone companies like 3G, who instead of resolving a matter, sell, your personal data to debt companies. PLEASE HELP URGENTLY
    Last edited by haki; 11-10-2018 at 11:35 AM. Reason: to be more specific
Page 3
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 1:58 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    Yes, but was the original claim "ignored" or was a defence entered, albeit a poor one, or unsupported by a presence at court hearing.
    It reads as though the judge has made some sort of ruling based on a set aside application.
    Originally posted by TW1234
    Thanks.

    It was a set aside hearing. Judge looks at both hurdles. Why i did not make it to court at the hearing to defend myself and if i had a good chance of success.

    What i am now doing is making an appeal of the 'set aside' hearing. ( it is quite a bit not straight forward) Basically, if you fail to make it a hearing, you MUST prove to the court why you couldn't make it. Even if you prove why you did not make it and it is accepted, the court must be CERTAIN that you could have won the case. BOTH are assessed jointly. If you get yes on both, the case is set aside and you revert to the original hearing, where now you make again your defence to be heard. If one misses a case, basically, it is quite a steep hill. Hope this helps. I must say overall the Judge was supportive and not dismissive. That is why, the judge went ahead to state what was required, ONLY bit is that was done during the hearing. Hence i have a fair chance for the appeal, if know the legal grounds of appeal.
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:05 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    Going by what you have said, I hope you sought advice before you started all this. I honestly think you could struggle to win this one.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Many thanks re advice.

    A solicitor would have noted/adviced re the appropriate medical evidence or what gp needs to include - please note that gp's also have responsibility to protect you by what they write in regards to your health.

    BTW, i actually do have hope - that i shall get some legal precedence to use for appeal - to show an error re procedure. For example, should the Judge have given me extra time to provide the specific evidence that the judge felt was needed in addition to what i had provided?
    I do not know, except that i must get the info to enable the appeal. Been searching and still searching.
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:13 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    The majority of people believe that when they issue a claim at the Small Claims Court. Have you sought advice on your case as the sparse details you have posted so far makes it appear it's not going to be as easy as you think.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Many thanks. You are right. In this case, i am a defendant, 3G/LOWELL/BWLEGAL are the claimants. So no, i did not go to court - i was taken to court, at no fault of my own. I was taken to court by 3g, through their third party debt buyers, yet it was 3g's fault. I would find it hard to find people who simply resort to go to court - it is NOT a lovely place and the law swings can never be predetermined. At the moment, i am defending myself. I hope this helps.
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:21 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    I can only repeat my previous advice. You have stated the judge told you what evidence he wanted. You have not told us any more than that. Therefore provide what the judge has said he wanted.

    Any more than that and we are just guessing. We don't know what he said.

    Are you trying to ask, in a roundabout way, what the appeal process is and how to initiate an appeal?

    If not then I'm not sure what your asking.
    Originally posted by waamo
    Many thanks for your concern.

    I have read on the ministry of justice website and gone to CABS and clearly understand the appeal process in regards to this case.

    What i am seeking help for, is if anyone has reference to legal grounds which i can use, to evidence that the judge likely error ed in the judgement not to set aside the case. I have replied in another post what the ministry of justice states must be proven for an appeal to be heard, then granted. There is a possibility that someone does have knowledge of the law, has experience of something similar or even most helpful, can point me to a precedence. I think lawyers have resources that they can search which shows up precedence. I do not have those resources. That is what i am seeking. Armed with this evidence, then i can successfully make an appeal. AFTER the appeal, then i can defend myself. I hope i am now clearer?
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:26 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    I agree, however the op maintains the judge did say what he wanted. The op has not divulged what they were told and on the surface appears to be asking what evidence to provide. Information the judge apparently gave them.

    That's how I'm reading it anyway. Unless I'm reading it wrong?
    Originally posted by waamo
    Many thanks.

    I have responded to this in another post.

    Judge made it specific DURING the hearing, NOT before.

    Having it now, does not change the ruling, neither does it grant me the appeal.

    At this moment now - what i need is to be armed with information to show the appeal court that the judge's procedure had errors, or made a judgement against the law. I think it is more to do with procedures rather than unlawful judgement. In any case, i need precedence or legal information on how such a matter would normally be handled or has been previously handled?
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:39 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    My reading is that you lost a claim based on default caused by your not defending at all because of a medical condition.
    Is that correct, or did you defend it, but, in your opinion not adequately, because of a medical condition that prevented your acting in the best manner possible.?

    You say that you lost, by default, so a CCJ was entered against you. Did you then enter an appeal against the judgement (which could be a costly process) or did you apply for a "set-aside" which requires a fee of 250 and for you to demonstrate that there was a good reason that you did not defend the original claim l, AND demonstrate that if the set-aside were to be permitted, then you would have some reasonable (not certain) prospect of being able to defend the matter.(When it was retried, from scratch)

    I read your information as saying that you have applied for a set aside and that a judge has accepted the latter requirement but has said that the first requirement has not been satisfied just by the production of the doctor's letter.

    Could you elaborate, please?
    Originally posted by TW1234
    My reading is that you lost a claim based on default caused by your not defending at all because of a medical condition.
    Is that correct - YES CORRECT.

    "did you apply for a "set-aside" which requires a fee of 250 and for you to demonstrate that there was a good reason that you did not defend the original claim l, AND demonstrate that if the set-aside were to be permitted, then you would have some reasonable (not certain) prospect of being able to defend the matter.(When it was retried, from scratch) "- CORRECT - IT WAS A SET ASIDE hearing.
    However, it was not granted. I have now been given the option to appeal the SET ASIDE ruling.

    "I read your information as saying that you have applied for a set aside and that a judge has accepted the latter requirement but has said that the first requirement has not been satisfied just by the production of the doctor's letter". CORRECT -

    Judge said the letter was NOT specific. And because it was not specific, court could not set aside the CCJ. The court must first set aside the ccj - after it has, then it basically over rules the previous judgement /order. It is only at this point, that i can have a clean slate and defend myself. Even after the court thinks i have a high chance of success, i would still need to go for a hearing and defend myself. But it helps knowing that i have a high chance of success.
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:41 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    See posts #20 and #22
    Originally posted by DoaM
    MANY THANKS!

    Yes, that is what i am saying - you are spot on.
    • haki
    • By haki 13th Oct 18, 2:47 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    BOTH must pass for a set aside to be granted. I passed one. Did not get an all clear on the second.

    So now, i need advice on how to appeal on the second part. It was my presumption that a GP's letter is sufficient. Only learnt that it was not at the hearing. So i believe the Judge erred on this specific issue, because there was no specific detailed report on what constituted medical evidence.

    It is not the responsibility of the judge to tell you what would provide good evidence to support your submission.

    Are you now seeking to appeal against a completed set aside refusal and then have a new application hearing? This could become costly as you are the party that has caused the additional costs.
    Originally posted by TW1234

    Many thanks.

    You are right. As a result of not being able to attend due to health grounds, i am the party that has caused additional costs.

    The judge however noted that in a such a case where i strongly felt that an injustice had occurred, it was the good that the court enables me to seek the justice. Having said this, i am not taking it lightly to seek to re write this wrong - it is because it does affect me in very many ways - i.e the cost of not seeking it to be made right at this moment will have a far much wider negative effect if left unchallenged - i hope this helps. I have replied in detail to another post concerning this bit.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 13th Oct 18, 8:48 AM
    • 16,441 Posts
    • 12,544 Thanks
    hollydays
    So the judge pretty much said you've got the right to have a go if it makes you feel better?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 13th Oct 18, 9:24 AM
    • 4,462 Posts
    • 5,854 Thanks
    waamo
    Many thanks.

    I have responded to this in another post.

    Judge made it specific DURING the hearing, NOT before.

    Having it now, does not change the ruling, neither does it grant me the appeal.

    At this moment now - what i need is to be armed with information to show the appeal court that the judge's procedure had errors, or made a judgement against the law. I think it is more to do with procedures rather than unlawful judgement. In any case, i need precedence or legal information on how such a matter would normally be handled or has been previously handled?
    Originally posted by haki
    It doesn't matter when the judge said what he wanted he has now told you what medical evidence is required.

    An appeal costs 1,199 to register. I'm not certain you can get relief on this. If you lose you may well be liable for ALL the costs including the other sides. They could be considerably higher.

    If you can't afford 1000 then the costs alone could ruin you financially. Not only that you would still be saddled with the original debt.

    You really need to think about this.
    This space for hire.
    • TW1234
    • By TW1234 13th Oct 18, 11:00 AM
    • 142 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    TW1234
    It doesn't matter when the judge said what he wanted he has now told you what medical evidence is required.

    An appeal costs 1,199 to register. I'm not certain you can get relief on this. If you lose you may well be liable for ALL the costs including the other sides. They could be considerably higher.

    If you can't afford 1000 then the costs alone could ruin you financially. Not only that you would still be saddled with the original debt.

    You really need to think about this.
    Originally posted by waamo
    There you have it.
    You agree that the situation has been created by your failure to present an adequate set-aside case.I suspect that the judge did not lay down further requirements for you to submit, but just tried to explain what would have been required to support your set aside application.
    You are now in the realm of trying to appeal the set-aside and it appears that the only grounds are now because your application was poorly presented by a litigant in person.That does not offer a reasonable hope to risk the costs.It is unlikely that the judge could be said to have erred.
    It must be distressing to learn that you did have a reasonable hope of success against the first claim, but that you have failed because of the application of fair procedures that you were not alert or competent enough to handle. Sometimes professional help is the cheapest.
    I am unable to offer advice on the further appeal process and echo the advice to consider your position and limited options..
    • waamo
    • By waamo 13th Oct 18, 11:40 AM
    • 4,462 Posts
    • 5,854 Thanks
    waamo
    Indeed. This could run to thousands and is essentially a gamble.

    At this point a few hundred quid on proper legal advice would be a whole lot cheaper and prevent you losing thousands. Even if they say you have no hope you will still be in a better position than ploughing ahead and losing.

    If they think you have a good case then they would be in a far better position than you to claim all your expenses back.

    As I said before you need to consider your options.
    This space for hire.
    • haki
    • By haki 14th Oct 18, 7:00 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    It doesn't matter when the judge said what he wanted he has now told you what medical evidence is required.

    An appeal costs 1,199 to register. I'm not certain you can get relief on this. If you lose you may well be liable for ALL the costs including the other sides. They could be considerably higher.

    If you can't afford 1000 then the costs alone could ruin you financially. Not only that you would still be saddled with the original debt.

    You really need to think about this.
    Originally posted by waamo
    Many thanks
    • haki
    • By haki 14th Oct 18, 7:02 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    There you have it.
    You agree that the situation has been created by your failure to present an adequate set-aside case.I suspect that the judge did not lay down further requirements for you to submit, but just tried to explain what would have been required to support your set aside application.
    You are now in the realm of trying to appeal the set-aside and it appears that the only grounds are now because your application was poorly presented by a litigant in person.That does not offer a reasonable hope to risk the costs.It is unlikely that the judge could be said to have erred.
    It must be distressing to learn that you did have a reasonable hope of success against the first claim, but that you have failed because of the application of fair procedures that you were not alert or competent enough to handle. Sometimes professional help is the cheapest.
    I am unable to offer advice on the further appeal process and echo the advice to consider your position and limited options..
    Originally posted by TW1234

    Thank you - will consider this.
    • haki
    • By haki 14th Oct 18, 7:04 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    Indeed. This could run to thousands and is essentially a gamble.

    At this point a few hundred quid on proper legal advice would be a whole lot cheaper and prevent you losing thousands. Even if they say you have no hope you will still be in a better position than ploughing ahead and losing.

    If they think you have a good case then they would be in a far better position than you to claim all your expenses back.

    As I said before you need to consider your options.
    Originally posted by waamo
    Many thanks - will look into it.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 15th Oct 18, 8:12 AM
    • 4,462 Posts
    • 5,854 Thanks
    waamo
    You may be able to get a short, free, legal advice session if the scheme operates near you. Follow this link for details https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you
    This space for hire.
    • haki
    • By haki 15th Oct 18, 2:21 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    You may be able to get a short, free, legal advice session if the scheme operates near you. Follow this link for details https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you
    Originally posted by waamo
    Thank you very much for this information. Most grateful.

    I have done the necessary as per their website and i now await their feedback.

    Kind regards
    • haki
    • By haki 15th Oct 18, 2:47 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    haki
    You may be able to get a short, free, legal advice session if the scheme operates near you. Follow this link for details https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you
    Originally posted by waamo

    An update to your advice: They have reverted to me within hours, most thankful.

    They state that they have a two to three week turn round. They do review consumer rights cases and offer advice and help in the process. ( I wish i knew this beforehand!)

    They have adviced that i could have a decent chance of an appeal hearing depending on which judge reviews the case, because medical evidence has a large area of discretion. However they are not able to review and offer this advice until my appointment.

    So where i am at is that i need to consider making the appeal, myself. Once i do, they will help me with the rest of the process. Time is the constraint, as appeal is due on Monday next, and my appointment is in three weeks time!

    They have asked me to general search and ask around, on precedence, of instances where evidence has been declined and then overturned - in the UK. They have also adviced that i speak with the court admins on application fees matters. Also to mention in appeal, that i am on waiting list for legal advice.

    I will update with any progress.

    Many thanks!
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