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    • Calyros
    • By Calyros 10th Oct 18, 4:46 PM
    • 5Posts
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    Calyros
    Request CCA or ignore PRA group
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 18, 4:46 PM
    Request CCA or ignore PRA group 10th Oct 18 at 4:46 PM
    I have an old debt from an MBNA credit card, agreement date 2008. Due to difficulties blah blah, my last payment on the card was in 2014. The PRA group were assigned the debt in 2015. I was living abroad and have never paid them anything. They found me in back in the UK and I responded with a letter (with signature) saying I couldn’t service the debt at that time. I guess that constitutes an acknowledgement....silly me, I didn’t know about this web site back then. Anyway 3 years on they have found me again. I think it is a ‘scatter’ letter as they are missing elements like my date of birth etc. And it is not showing up in my credit file. I won’t be moving from my current address so I’m not sure whether to request a CCA from them or ignore and not communicate. I am 2 years away from the debt being time barred so if I write to them at all I start the clock at zero I suppose and I give them some fuel to show teeth. I’m pretty sure this will be an unenforceable debt but not sure if it’s worth the risk. Any advice out there would be very welcome.
    Last edited by Calyros; 10-10-2018 at 4:55 PM. Reason: Spelling
Page 1
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 10th Oct 18, 5:10 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    Just Di
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 18, 5:10 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 18, 5:10 PM
    I have an old debt from an MBNA credit card, agreement date 2008.

    . . . . they have found me again. I think it is a ‘scatter’ letter as they are missing elements like my date of birth etc. And it is not showing up in my credit file. I won’t be moving from my current address so I’m not sure whether to request a CCA from them or ignore and not communicate. I am 2 years away from the debt being time barred so if I write to them at all I start the clock at zero I suppose and I give them some fuel to show teeth. I’m pretty sure this will be an unenforceable debt but not sure if it’s worth the risk.
    Originally posted by Calyros
    Unless you've received a Letter Before Claim giving you 30 days' notice to respond or court proceedings will be issued, you could do your research to see if the debt is likely to be enforceable in case they do pounce.

    PRA's decision to litigate (or not) will be based on a number of things, most of them commercial decisions e.g. if the debt is over 10k they'll be at risk of paying legal costs if they lose.

    At this stage PRA may have no idea whether the credit agreement even exists let alone whether it's enforceable.

    If you send a s 77-79 CCA Request to them now they will go looking for the credit agreement in response.

    This means that if they source the agreement, or have enough information to make a reconstituted document, they could decide to issue a claim thinking they've got their evidence in the bag to proceed successfully.

    It's a balance between being proactive and reactive.

    At the moment you feel the letter is only phishing for information because they've traced you, or someone they believe might be you.

    How much is the balance outstanding and do you own your own home which they might be able to see on your CRA file if you have a mortgage on it?

    The debt won't show on your CRA file if the account was defauted more than six years ago because the whole file entry will vanish from sight six years to the day the default was registered (in theory).

    How was the account opened? You could send a Subject Access Request to MBNA to see what data they hold on file about the account, because if the agreement and other relevant documents/information isn't in your file, then PRA won't be able to get it either

    Finally, what makes you say that the agreement is likely to be unenforceable?

    Di
    Last edited by Just Di; 10-10-2018 at 5:21 PM. Reason: typos
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 10th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
    • 214 Posts
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    Just Di
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
    I have an old debt from an MBNA credit card, agreement date 2008. Due to difficulties blah blah, my last payment on the card was in 2014. The PRA group were assigned the debt in 2015.
    Originally posted by Calyros
    Are you certain the MBNA account was assigned direct to PRA in 2015, or could it have been assigned to someone else first such as Aktiv Kapital?

    Does the name Experto Credite mean anything to you?

    I ask because even if the credit agreement is enforceable that doesn't necessarily mean the debt is enforceable especially if there are potential assignment issues as there were in PRA Group (UK) Ltd v Diana Mayhew which they lost in court last year

    Di
    • Calyros
    • By Calyros 11th Oct 18, 12:05 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    Calyros
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 18, 12:05 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 18, 12:05 AM
    Hi and thanks for your response. I haven’t had a Letter Before Claim notice so proactive is the way forward. The debt is not insurmountable, 1400 but I could not afford to give them an F&F of 80% which is the least they will offer. I have a mortgage and am just getting free of debt. MBNA was not my debt in the first place so having PRA breathing down my neck just makes me want to send them packing. The default on this debt is certainly more than 6 years old. I have no idea how the account was opened. Is there a template letter somewhere I could use to send an SAR request to MBNA? Unenforceable?...unfounded assumption on my part! I have no idea if the debt was assigned elsewhere before PRA and I don’t know how to find out. The other names you mention don’t mean very much to me either but I did read about the case against PRA...great result! In the meantime I will research through MBNA to see what data they hold and hope the contact from PRA is phishing for the moment. Thank you so much
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 11th Oct 18, 3:46 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    Just Di
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 18, 3:46 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 18, 3:46 PM
    MBNA was not my debt in the first place so having PRA breathing down my neck just makes me want to send them packing. The default on this debt is certainly more than 6 years old. I have no idea how the account was opened.
    Originally posted by Calyros

    In what way was the MBNA debt not yours?

    Do you mean you were the victim of identity theft, or was there another reason which could provide you with a dispute of the debt?

    See what they send next but a Prove It! letter might be useful in the first instance; followed up by a s 77-79 CCA Request if they turn up the heat.

    Di
    • Calyros
    • By Calyros 13th Oct 18, 5:02 AM
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    Calyros
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:02 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 5:02 AM
    Sorry Di, that was misleading. The debt is in my name and I can’t dispute it. Just helped out a friend in difficulty many years ago and got stuck with it.

    Do you know if they can put this debt back on my CR file even though it has already fallen off?

    Also, the debt is 2 years from SB status. Would sending a Prove it letter or a 77-79 CCA reset the time clock at zero?

    Is there away to find out if the debt was assigned to someone else before PRA? I was living abroad for a few years and so had no correspondence from anyone else.

    Sorry for all the questions..I’m new to this and on a bit of a learning curve!
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 13th Oct 18, 11:00 AM
    • 15,873 Posts
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    sourcrates
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:00 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:00 AM
    Hi,


    If its gone from your file, then its never coming back.

    The provit letter would not constitute acknowledgement, however the CCA request may do, (Di the expert on that one).

    Discovering the paper-trail of a particular debt after it is sold or assigned by the original creditor, can be difficult, a SAR to MBNA would get you any information up to the point they washed their hands of it, then the same again to whoever the new owner was, and so on.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 13-10-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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    • Calyros
    • By Calyros 27th Oct 18, 12:30 PM
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    Calyros
    • #8
    • 27th Oct 18, 12:30 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Oct 18, 12:30 PM
    Hello Di, I have just sent a SAR request to MBNA and also contacted them by phone. I asked the if my information would be shared by a third party and interestingly they said that once I have received all requested data (after 28 days) all information on my old account will be destroyed!

    They were also able to tell me that the original MBNA debt was assigned to Aktiv Kapital in 2015. I have no idea if Experto Credite was also involved somewhere, but I would appreciate your opinion/advice, as you mentioned possible assignment issues. I refer to the court case PRA Group lost against you last year. Thanks
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 3rd Nov 18, 5:27 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    Just Di
    • #9
    • 3rd Nov 18, 5:27 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Nov 18, 5:27 PM
    sent a SAR request to MBNA and also contacted them by phone. I asked the if my information would be shared by a third party and interestingly they said that once I have received all requested data (after 28 days) all information on my old account will be destroyed!
    Originally posted by Calyros
    Did they really say that? I can't think of any reason why MBNA would automatically destroy data after responding to your SAR.

    However if that is true, then don't send a s77-79 CCA Request to PRA yet because the first thing they will do is ask MBNA for a copy of the credit agreement.

    Maybe wait until the data has been destroyed by MBNA so not available to PRA

    Di
    • Calyros
    • By Calyros 16th Nov 18, 10:59 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Calyros
    Thanks for the response Di. I have received the credit agreement following my SAR request to MBNA, with box tick signature.

    I will double check with MBNA that my information has been destroyed after 28 days, however this is only what I was told during a phone call with them, so I have no real guarantee it will actually happen and not be passed on to a third party.

    Just in case PRA get a hold of it, is there any way to find out if this CA from 2008 is enforceable or if it has assignment issues since Activ Kapital were involved?
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