Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • zzzfaye78
    • By zzzfaye78 10th Oct 18, 10:20 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 3Thanks
    zzzfaye78
    Mams pension
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:20 AM
    Mams pension 10th Oct 18 at 10:20 AM
    Hi sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum if anybody can give me any advice on what I should do next will be greatly appreciated.

    I'll try to make a long story short, my mother turned 60 in June she had 2 pensions one was worth 4000 and another was worth 34000. The pension provider of 4000 got in touch 1st and because the amount was small she could take the whole pension in one lump sum of 4000 which she did. Then a few weeks later she got another pension letter from the 34000 pension fund which she was unaware she had, again they said because it was a low amount they could possibly pay out the whole amount in full and this is what she decided to do, she filled in the paperwork and sent if off. After a few weeks, she received a letter back saying they where aware she had already received a pension settlement of 4000 and because this 34000 would take her over the allowed sum to be allowed for a full payout she would have to take the pension as a yearly pension which was something like 700 per year. About a week after receiving this letter my mam had to go to the doctors and was told she had terminal cancer and only had a few weeks left to live, the whole family was in total shock and trying to come to terms with the thought of losing my mam in weeks...............Ok to finish this we phoned up the 34000 pension people and explained my mams situation and they explained because of the circumstances they can pay the whole pension fund out in full they just need to write to my mams doctors.

    They did write to my mams doctors but this was after a week and the doctors surgery then kept this letter for another 3 weeks and this was because the pension fund needed to pay for the medical records which took another week, and all this time my mam got steadily worse and worse and the day the pension people got the letter from the doctor was the day my mam passed away...........My mam had worked for this pension and when she needed it most it was not there for her. I need some advice as to what happens now to this pension? I have received a letter from them to fill in which mentions a death payment of 775, I`m working and my mam was not married there is only me and my 18-year-old brother who is in college.....Will this pension just go to the government... Thank for reading this and any help or advice or anything I have to do would be greatly appreciated as I still numb from losing my mam and not thinking straight Faye x
Page 1
    • Kynthia
    • By Kynthia 10th Oct 18, 10:27 AM
    • 5,314 Posts
    • 7,429 Thanks
    Kynthia
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:27 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:27 AM
    Can you give the details of the pension? Do you know if it was a defined benefit/final salary pension or a defined contribution/money purchase pot? Who is it with? What exactly have they said about the death payment and have they said anything else about a dependant pension?
    I'm sorry for your loss.
    Don't listen to me, I'm no expert!
    • zzzfaye78
    • By zzzfaye78 10th Oct 18, 10:31 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    zzzfaye78
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:31 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:31 AM
    I`m not sure but the pension fund was with the BBC
    • zzzfaye78
    • By zzzfaye78 10th Oct 18, 10:47 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    zzzfaye78
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:47 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 18, 10:47 AM
    The form they sent was asking questions if there were any dependants and it did mention a death payment off 775, i know my mam never specified anybody as a dependant on for the pension on her death. All i can work out is its called a deferred pension from the BBC sorry if this is vague. I will look over some of her papers to see if they is any mention of what the pension was.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 10th Oct 18, 12:27 PM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 4,943 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 18, 12:27 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 18, 12:27 PM
    Death before your deferred pension starts If you die and have a deferred pension, the following benefits are payable:
    A dependant’s pension Your qualifying spouse or qualifying civil partner will receive a dependant’s pension calculated as follows:
    • it will be half of the pension you would have received if you had taken it immediately before the date of your death (ignoring any reduction there would normally have been for early payment).
    If you have no qualifying spouse or qualifying civil partner, your nominated dependant will receive a pension. A pension paid to a nominated dependant will be reduced by any GMP payable and will not be payable if there are two or more qualifying children.
    Children’s pension Your qualifying children (up to a maximum of two) will each receive a pension equal to a quarter of the pension you would have received if you had taken it immediately before the date of your death (ignoring any reduction there would normally have been for early payment). If no qualifying spouse or qualifying civil partner’s pension is payable, the children’s pensions will be doubled (subject to a combined maximum of the pension you would have received less any GMP payable).
    A lump sum If no pensions are payable, the Trustees will make a lump sum payment, which is currently free of inheritance tax. It will be equal to five times your deferred pension, with increases to the date of your death. The Trustees have discretion over who receives the cash and in what proportion. They take into account, but cannot be bound by, your wishes. You are therefore asked to let the Trustees know your choice of beneficiaries by keeping your expression of wish form up to date. If your circumstances change, a new form is available from our website, bbc.co.uk/mypension.
    So sorry for your loss.

    I wonder if it is because they will be paying your brother a 'childs' pension? This is usually paid up to the age of 23, as long as the 'child' remains in full time education. I would speak to whoever if was who told you about the lump sum to clarify.

    The rest of your mum's benefits won't go to the Government - they'll be retained by the BBC pension scheme and used to offset the higher payments made to pensioners who live to 100. (Sorry, but that's the way final salary schemes have always operated).
    • zzzfaye78
    • By zzzfaye78 10th Oct 18, 1:19 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    zzzfaye78
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:19 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:19 PM
    Many many thanks for your information i will wait till they reply and see what they say, Everything right now is so confusing. Again thank you.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 10th Oct 18, 1:22 PM
    • 26,897 Posts
    • 16,045 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:22 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:22 PM
    It seems that your mother was able to take the first pension as a "small pot" (under 10,000) but was unable to trivially commute the second pension because it was in excess of 30,000.

    https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/pensioners-and-tax/how-do-i-cash-my-small-pension-trivial-commutation

    As it was in excess of 30,000 I am rather surprised that trivial commutation was offered in the first place - perhaps silvertabby (who was a pensions administrator) might be able to comment on this point.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/currentmembers/oldbenefits/third

    Your brother's situation is unclear

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/pensioners/whenyoudie

    Qualifying children

    Your qualifying children will be entitled to a third share (two-thirds if there is no qualifying spouse) of your full pension.

    Children cease to be eligible for a pension when they reach 18. At the trustees' discretion, they may continue to receive one until they finish full-time education - which is normally first degree or equivalent.


    The Trustees' discretion will be the most important factor here.

    If you need to discuss the situation, you may find that a telephone call to TPAS would help.

    https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/

    You have had a sudden and unexpected loss - condolences.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 10th Oct 18, 1:35 PM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 4,943 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:35 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:35 PM
    As it was in excess of 30,000 I am rather surprised that trivial commutation was offered in the first place - perhaps silvertabby (who was a pensions administrator) might be able to comment on this point. Posted by xylophone
    I'm surprised as well - I believe that the 30K limit applies to all DB pension schemes.

    However, 34K seems very high in view of the alternative of a pension of just 700 per year. I suspect finger trouble with the original offer - especially as 14K trivial commutation would be more in keeping with the alternative annual pension.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 10-10-2018 at 4:49 PM.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 10th Oct 18, 1:48 PM
    • 26,897 Posts
    • 16,045 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:48 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 18, 1:48 PM
    14
    14,000?

    But then TC would have been available (possibly, depending on the personal circumstances)?

    All in all, the administrators don't seem to have covered themselves with glory?

    I wonder whether this will weigh in the Trustees' deliberations - perhaps it should and it would be worth a discussion with TPAS?

    Although I appreciate that this is just the wrong time for the OP to want to be involved in financial wrangles.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 10th Oct 18, 4:53 PM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 4,943 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    “ 14
    14,000?

    But then TC would have been available (possibly, depending on the personal circumstances)?

    All in all, the administrators don't seem to have covered themselves with glory?

    I wonder whether this will weigh in the Trustees' deliberations - perhaps it should and it would be worth a discussion with TPAS?

    Although I appreciate that this is just the wrong time for the OP to want to be involved in financial wrangles.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Oops - yes, 14K. Still possible that whoever produced the letter saw 14K, went into TC mode and then mis-typed the amount in the letter.

    I'm sure OP won't want the hassle - but worth mentioning when querying the lump sum offered to her.
    • Bimbly
    • By Bimbly 10th Oct 18, 11:52 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    Bimbly
    You may already know that BBC pensions wesite is here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/
    You can call them and they are generally very helpful.
    • zzzfaye78
    • By zzzfaye78 12th Oct 18, 11:31 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    zzzfaye78
    Thank you so much for your advice. My mother wished for this money to pay towards her funeral expenses and clear her debts whilst she was alive and maybe go away with me and my brother, sadly she wishes never happened and from hearing the news about her health she deterated so quickly she was not able to see any benifit of her savings. I have phoned the BBC having read the advice given on here and they are going to phone me back and maybe they can explain what will happen next. I am so angry there was such a delay with paperwork on the doctor's side and BBC, I realise there is a procedure but my mam had been going to this doctors for over a year complaning about her breathing and all through the summer she was told she had pollen on the lung...... I cannot talk about this as it makes me angry and sad, but again i really appreciate all your helpful advice and as i cannot understand or get my head around anything in my life right now.
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 12th Oct 18, 11:59 AM
    • 11,770 Posts
    • 8,285 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    i cannot understand or get my head around anything in my life right now.
    Originally posted by zzzfaye78
    That's a normal response to grief. Best wishes.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 12th Oct 18, 12:31 PM
    • 26,897 Posts
    • 16,045 Thanks
    xylophone
    I realise there is a procedure but my mam had been going to this doctors for over a year complaining about her breathing
    I feel for you - a relation of mine was told for weeks that he had pleurisy - he collapsed and died from heart failure - we learned afterwards that all the symptoms of which he was complaining were typical of the disease but had gone unrecognised.

    Anger and incomprehension are stages of grief and although you can't see an end at the time, they will pass.

    I hope that the Trustees will take a compassionate view of the circumstances.
    • Rodders53
    • By Rodders53 13th Oct 18, 5:53 PM
    • 506 Posts
    • 338 Thanks
    Rodders53
    My condolences to the family at such an upsetting time.

    I wonder if the BBC Pension was, in fact, just under 30k and when the other "4k" pension was added they totalled just over 34k?

    OP needs to search and gather all Mum's correspondence with BBC Pensions (plus anything that can be found regarding her BBC employment). This may clear up some misunderstandings?

    How did BBC contact Mum when she'd forgotten about this deferred pension (never moved since BBC service = annual letters from BBC about the deferred pension so she would have known.) BBC apparently unaware of dependent children, and no expression of wishes form lodged? Maybe BBC service was over 25 years ago, and no children when she left BBC?

    BBC Pension Trustees should pay (up to) five years of the pension payable to Mum to the children (son & daughter?), free of IHT. As none are under 18 that is simple enough.

    The option for a pension for the 18 year old son while in full time education for up to 5 years cf the (nearly) five year full pension lump sum, may not be as attractive (even allowing for RPI inflation)? {Note: to me, it reads as one or the other, not both; although BBC Pensions Trustees will often be as generous as possible, within the rules.}

    OP may also need to visit the Deaths, Funerals and Probate board for advice and help in dealing with Mum's estate (debts etc.,.)
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=217
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Oct 18, 7:07 PM
    • 26,897 Posts
    • 16,045 Thanks
    xylophone
    wonder if the BBC Pension was, in fact, just under 30k and when the other "4k" pension was added they totalled just over 34k?
    It would seem not.

    I'll try to make a long story short, my mother turned 60 in June she had 2 pensions one was worth 4000 and another was worth 34000. The pension provider of 4000 got in touch 1st and because the amount was small she could take the whole pension in one lump sum of 4000 which she did. Then a few weeks later she got another pension letter from the 34000 pension fund which she was unaware she had,
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,205Posts Today

6,881Users online

Martin's Twitter