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  • FIRST POST
    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 9th Oct 18, 8:57 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    Landlord selling house
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:57 PM
    Landlord selling house 9th Oct 18 at 8:57 PM
    We moved 200 miles ago in April. Put our house on the market, signed a 6 month tenancy. Weíve had 2 house sales fall through and are now letting our property and staying in rented.

    The landlords agent wanted to do another 6 months in September, at which point we thought we would be buying a house here so have been honest (and were honest the entire way through) of our intentions. Now the house sale has fallen through, Iíve asked their intention so we know if we need to find somewhere to live or can we sign for another 6 months. Agent said she would contact landlord and expects sheíll want us to stay - this was last Tuesday. Theyíve told us today that they put the house on the market(it went online Friday), and have someone wanting to view. Theyíre trying to keep us sweet, I think, by saying itís so unlikely weíll get notice this month (because that means moving 3 days before Christmas), as itís unlikely to sell quickly.

    The viewer wants to come any evening next week between 5.30 and 5.45. I get home with my children about that time, itís ridicilously inconvenient and quite frankly - Iím not sure I have any incentive to do the landlord a favour by allowing viewings. Am I within my rights to refuse? Someone must be home for a viewing because we have a dog that would get quite upset with strangers in his house unaccompanied!
Page 3
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Oct 18, 9:50 AM
    • 10,970 Posts
    • 12,649 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    As long as the people viewing don't want to see the bathroom while the little ones are in the tub, or their bedrooms when they're tucked in with lights out.
    Originally posted by CarrieVS
    It's 545 and they've just got in. It's dinner time. Anyway she can simply say "no" to this time of day, no reason she should put the prospects convenience above hers. I just happen to think she's making a mountain out of a molehill because she's aggrieved at the LL.
    If this was her house she was selling and the prospect couldn't make other times somehow I don't think it would be an issue, or indeeed she'd tidy up that morning and take the kids out for a pizza while the viewing happened.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 11-10-2018 at 9:54 AM.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Mela322
    • By Mela322 11th Oct 18, 10:28 AM
    • 117 Posts
    • 103 Thanks
    Mela322
    Not taking sides, a lot can happen in less than 2 weeks. We rent but from the time we took to decide to move and get approved was 4 days! Not knowing the landlord's previous situation, it could be that they weren't in a position to have an empty house again or just didn't want the hassle of another tenant being vetted.

    I get that it's a busy time when you get home but these are usually so quick. You could arrange for a takeaway or an easy "throw in the oven" meal that would be done in 15 mins. Slight inconvenience, maybe, but would be a quick one.

    Renting has it's ups and downs and I don't think the landlord is being unreasonable at all. I have 3 children and know how hectic life can be. This just seems a situation that isn't worth all the upset and anger.
    • Okrib
    • By Okrib 12th Oct 18, 10:16 AM
    • 110 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    Okrib
    Surely an email asking for a viewing is putting it in writing? If you are going to insist on them physically writing a letter every time there is a prospective viewing then you will absolutely annoy your landlord. There's the letter of the law, which of course as a tenant you have the right to make the agent and landlord follow should you so wish, and then there is common sense. Seems like a bit too much focus on the former, and not enough on the latter.

    We used to arrange viewings at tenanted properties often when the tenants were out. If 5.30 - 5.45 does not work for you, I would suggest offering an alternative time that does. Otherwise you are going to further antagonise your landlord.

    I once dealt with a sale where the tenants were incredibly awkward about everything. The landlord wanted to sell, and he ended up having to get rid of the tenants so that viewings could take place and he could sell. The tenants ended up having to move at shorter notice due to their intransigence.

    And ultimately, just as your plans changed, so did that of your landlord. That's life.

    Personally, I'd let the viewing happen if it was the only time they actually can do, but I would warn the agent that you will be feeding the kids etc. It's highly unlikely that a viewing will result in an offer anyway.
    • Wyndham
    • By Wyndham 12th Oct 18, 10:47 AM
    • 2,042 Posts
    • 2,350 Thanks
    Wyndham
    Surely the main issue here is that the OP has not been given notice? The landlord is looking to minimize the void period, and that really isn't the OP's concern.

    Stick to your guns, don't allow viewings. Your contract is clear, you really don't have to. You may then get a S21, but the landlord will probably hesitate as it would mean a void period.
    • Sibz
    • By Sibz 12th Oct 18, 10:51 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Sibz
    Sounds to me like you're taking your frustration about your failed purchase out on the landlord, unfairly.
    They were originally happy to offer you another fixed term, but you advised that you were looking to move out - all good so far on both sides.

    Was the property you currently rent vacant for long before you moved in? Perhaps you stating that you intend to leave soon has made the LL consider selling due to lack of potential income from renting the property out going forward. They're doing nothing wrong in making a decision that they see is best for them.

    Regarding the time arrangements for viewings: as other have said simply explain that that time of the day midweek is in neither party's interests and provide times that would be more suitable going forward (with suitable notice provided beforehand).
    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 12th Oct 18, 11:12 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    I was going to just let this drop down the board because Iím feeling a little misunderstood (boohoo to me!). I feel I need to respond just to clarify some points:

    1. Iíve had a phone call only from the letting agent, not an email (sheís only replied in email since). She called to say sheíd advised the landlord not to market the property with us in, but landlord has chosen to and wonít give us our notice until sheís sold because she doesnít want an empty property. This has got my back up because, in as nice a way as she can, weíve been told the landlord wants us to stay put and keep paying our rent with no guarantee from them that we wonít get our notice tomorrow. Sheís telling me how I proceedable and unlikely it is anyone will buy this side of Christmas. Thatís not fair, because all it takes is one person, so she shouldnít be mitigating it like this. They put the property on the market after we asked to sign a new 6 month tenancy, not after, so didnít do it for fear of a void as such. Whatís made me grumble so much is that we asked for 6 months, they said 90% yes but will get it confirmed, then put the house on the market without telling us. The letting agent has said if we would agree to 12 months then the landlord may agree if these viewings donít come to anything.

    2. Iíve accepted the viewing, and the letting agent has now booked in a second for a day after (I gave her 2 possible time frames, sheís filled both of them). If thereís more sheís told me sheíll book them in as close to then as she can. This isnít acceptable to me, but I havenít been asked Iíve been told.

    3. Iím not 100% certain on many issues when thereís no black & white, and I have zero experience of being either a landlord or a tenant. My deposit is now protected, but initially it wasnít. Unusually, the letting agent claimed to have paid it in and just not allocated it. I wasnít aware this meant it was unprotected, but I understand where my responsibilities as a landlord would be.

    4. Iím not taking my frustration out on the landlord due to our other worries - Iím hugely frustrated about the lack of clarity for our future - being in rented accommodation is very unstable and not where Iíd like to be. I feel lied to, which is due to telephone conversations Iíve had that have led me to believe different things.

    5. I have no naivety about the consent to let/buy to let. Itís irrelevant to this situation, however: our residential product expired in August, we moved onto a SVR. No mortgage company will remortgage whilst the property is on the market. No mortgage company will remortgage an empty property on a residential mortgage. We cannot afford the SVR rate indefinitely, so a BTL interest only has been our only option (to also release funds from equity to do repairs to the property and provide a cushion for void periods etc). The mortgage company denied a CTL anyway, because they say we need to go on to a BTL product.

    6. The landlord lived here herself prior to us moving in, no void periods. She didnít initially want to sell, the valuation sheís had has changed her mind. Theyíve completley ignored any notification of damages since weíve been here (eg the floor in the living room collapsed after a few days - a small area in the corner behind the tv and hasnít affected us, but no response even to look at it. She didnít respond when we requested to add safety locks to cupboards and blind cords. She has never collected post or stopped having it sent here despite our requests.)

    Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions, Iíve taken a lot on board and am seeing properties tomorrow so hopefully we can move quickly to avoid feeling like our home is an open house simply because we rent. I clearly havenít expressed well everything thatís been said as a lot has been verbal, itís been an incredibly stressful few weeks and my mind is not 100% clear.
    • franklee
    • By franklee 13th Oct 18, 12:10 AM
    • 3,746 Posts
    • 4,035 Thanks
    franklee
    Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions, Iíve taken a lot on board and am seeing properties tomorrow so hopefully we can move quickly to avoid feeling like our home is an open house simply because we rent. I clearly havenít expressed well everything thatís been said as a lot has been verbal, itís been an incredibly stressful few weeks and my mind is not 100% clear.
    Originally posted by Kim.wigley
    Having received S21 notices "out of the blue" in the past when my landlords wished to sell, the uncertainty is stressful and moving is costly and hard work. I'm not sure everyone appreciates how much harder it is to move to someone else's schedule than it is when choosing to move oneself having done the advance preparation etc. Still thems the rules but I hope the useful information in this thread will assist you should you need to challenge or negotiate with the landlord.

    It is best advice not to exchange contracts on a sale until the tenant has vacated if selling with vacant possession (as a tenant doesn't have to leave at the expiry of a S21 notice, the notice may be invalid, etc). So it could be the viewings now are pretty much a waste of time.

    I hope everything works out for you
    • Sibz
    • By Sibz 13th Oct 18, 12:26 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Sibz
    I was going to just let this drop down the board because Iím feeling a little misunderstood (boohoo to me!). I feel I need to respond just to clarify some points:

    1. Iíve had a phone call only from the letting agent, not an email (sheís only replied in email since). She called to say sheíd advised the landlord not to market the property with us in, but landlord has chosen to and wonít give us our notice until sheís sold because she doesnít want an empty property. This has got my back up because, in as nice a way as she can, weíve been told the landlord wants us to stay put and keep paying our rent with no guarantee from them that we wonít get our notice tomorrow. Sheís telling me how I proceedable and unlikely it is anyone will buy this side of Christmas. Thatís not fair, because all it takes is one person, so she shouldnít be mitigating it like this. They put the property on the market after we asked to sign a new 6 month tenancy, not after, so didnít do it for fear of a void as such. Whatís made me grumble so much is that we asked for 6 months, they said 90% yes but will get it confirmed, then put the house on the market without telling us. The letting agent has said if we would agree to 12 months then the landlord may agree if these viewings donít come to anything.

    2. Iíve accepted the viewing, and the letting agent has now booked in a second for a day after (I gave her 2 possible time frames, sheís filled both of them). If thereís more sheís told me sheíll book them in as close to then as she can. This isnít acceptable to me, but I havenít been asked Iíve been told.

    3. Iím not 100% certain on many issues when thereís no black & white, and I have zero experience of being either a landlord or a tenant. My deposit is now protected, but initially it wasnít. Unusually, the letting agent claimed to have paid it in and just not allocated it. I wasnít aware this meant it was unprotected, but I understand where my responsibilities as a landlord would be.

    4. Iím not taking my frustration out on the landlord due to our other worries - Iím hugely frustrated about the lack of clarity for our future - being in rented accommodation is very unstable and not where Iíd like to be. I feel lied to, which is due to telephone conversations Iíve had that have led me to believe different things.

    5. I have no naivety about the consent to let/buy to let. Itís irrelevant to this situation, however: our residential product expired in August, we moved onto a SVR. No mortgage company will remortgage whilst the property is on the market. No mortgage company will remortgage an empty property on a residential mortgage. We cannot afford the SVR rate indefinitely, so a BTL interest only has been our only option (to also release funds from equity to do repairs to the property and provide a cushion for void periods etc). The mortgage company denied a CTL anyway, because they say we need to go on to a BTL product.

    6. The landlord lived here herself prior to us moving in, no void periods. She didnít initially want to sell, the valuation sheís had has changed her mind. Theyíve completley ignored any notification of damages since weíve been here (eg the floor in the living room collapsed after a few days - a small area in the corner behind the tv and hasnít affected us, but no response even to look at it. She didnít respond when we requested to add safety locks to cupboards and blind cords. She has never collected post or stopped having it sent here despite our requests.)

    Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions, Iíve taken a lot on board and am seeing properties tomorrow so hopefully we can move quickly to avoid feeling like our home is an open house simply because we rent. I clearly havenít expressed well everything thatís been said as a lot has been verbal, itís been an incredibly stressful few weeks and my mind is not 100% clear.
    Originally posted by Kim.wigley
    I hope everything goes well for you... It's easy to say 'try not to stress too much' but it's prob not helpful.
    If there are defects with the property that the LL has refused/neglected to deal with I would certainly try to make them quite visible during the viewings; 1) if there is no sale and you remain there perhaps it will be a better incentive for the LL to actually deal with them. 2) The prospective buyer would be likely to offer less on account of work needing done and you're potentially preventing someone being ripped off a bit.

    Good luck with the sale of your house
    • Okrib
    • By Okrib 13th Oct 18, 9:06 AM
    • 110 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    Okrib
    I was going to just let this drop down the board because Iím feeling a little misunderstood (boohoo to me!). I feel I need to respond just to clarify some points:

    1. Iíve had a phone call only from the letting agent, not an email (sheís only replied in email since). She called to say sheíd advised the landlord not to market the property with us in, but landlord has chosen to and wonít give us our notice until sheís sold because she doesnít want an empty property. This has got my back up because, in as nice a way as she can, weíve been told the landlord wants us to stay put and keep paying our rent with no guarantee from them that we wonít get our notice tomorrow. Sheís telling me how I proceedable and unlikely it is anyone will buy this side of Christmas. Thatís not fair, because all it takes is one person, so she shouldnít be mitigating it like this. They put the property on the market after we asked to sign a new 6 month tenancy, not after, so didnít do it for fear of a void as such. Whatís made me grumble so much is that we asked for 6 months, they said 90% yes but will get it confirmed, then put the house on the market without telling us. The letting agent has said if we would agree to 12 months then the landlord may agree if these viewings donít come to anything.

    2. Iíve accepted the viewing, and the letting agent has now booked in a second for a day after (I gave her 2 possible time frames, sheís filled both of them). If thereís more sheís told me sheíll book them in as close to then as she can. This isnít acceptable to me, but I havenít been asked Iíve been told.

    3. Iím not 100% certain on many issues when thereís no black & white, and I have zero experience of being either a landlord or a tenant. My deposit is now protected, but initially it wasnít. Unusually, the letting agent claimed to have paid it in and just not allocated it. I wasnít aware this meant it was unprotected, but I understand where my responsibilities as a landlord would be.

    4. Iím not taking my frustration out on the landlord due to our other worries - Iím hugely frustrated about the lack of clarity for our future - being in rented accommodation is very unstable and not where Iíd like to be. I feel lied to, which is due to telephone conversations Iíve had that have led me to believe different things.

    5. I have no naivety about the consent to let/buy to let. Itís irrelevant to this situation, however: our residential product expired in August, we moved onto a SVR. No mortgage company will remortgage whilst the property is on the market. No mortgage company will remortgage an empty property on a residential mortgage. We cannot afford the SVR rate indefinitely, so a BTL interest only has been our only option (to also release funds from equity to do repairs to the property and provide a cushion for void periods etc). The mortgage company denied a CTL anyway, because they say we need to go on to a BTL product.

    6. The landlord lived here herself prior to us moving in, no void periods. She didnít initially want to sell, the valuation sheís had has changed her mind. Theyíve completley ignored any notification of damages since weíve been here (eg the floor in the living room collapsed after a few days - a small area in the corner behind the tv and hasnít affected us, but no response even to look at it. She didnít respond when we requested to add safety locks to cupboards and blind cords. She has never collected post or stopped having it sent here despite our requests.)

    Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions, Iíve taken a lot on board and am seeing properties tomorrow so hopefully we can move quickly to avoid feeling like our home is an open house simply because we rent. I clearly havenít expressed well everything thatís been said as a lot has been verbal, itís been an incredibly stressful few weeks and my mind is not 100% clear.
    Originally posted by Kim.wigley
    1 - The agent should have emailed. This is unacceptable. You can / should request all correspondence to be done like that, as then you will have records. Realistically, it is unlikely anyone will buy with tenants in situ, it is far more complicated. However, you could tell the agent you would be interested in staying for a certain period of time should any new buyer be a BTL landlord. There were changes of plans on both sides, just as you have the right to serve notice, the landlord has the right to list the property for sale.

    2 - Make it clear of the times which are acceptable to you and stick to them. By grouping viewings close together the agent is probably trying to minimise disruption to you. Remember the agent is acting for their client (the landlord).

    3 - This seems utterly pointless to me. I don't see what the fuss is about whatsoever. Your deposit is protected. No one has run off with it, or done anything. Move on.

    4 - Lied to? You don't know what is happening to the landlord. The landlord might well also feel lied to as your plans have changed and let to a lack of clarity to them.

    6 - Add safety locks? Why would you not just get these yourself? You presumably know which type you want. Asking for things like that is absurd. Why should the landlord be asked to provide additional things relevant to your personal situation? If they were not there when you moved in, or weren't requested as part of your offer, that falls on you as far as I am concerned. The post situation may be annoying but again I'm getting the mountain / molehill analogy here.

    I hope you manage to find a home ASAP. It sounds like it would be best for all concerned.
    • Wyndham
    • By Wyndham 13th Oct 18, 4:00 PM
    • 2,042 Posts
    • 2,350 Thanks
    Wyndham
    Don't suppose you want to buy the house from the landlord? It would clear much of this up
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