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  • FIRST POST
    • an1179
    • By an1179 26th Sep 18, 5:37 PM
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    an1179
    Contest PCN when no ticket bought because driver was ill
    • #1
    • 26th Sep 18, 5:37 PM
    Contest PCN when no ticket bought because driver was ill 26th Sep 18 at 5:37 PM
    Driver was unwell so pulled off the road into a car park and no ticket bought because unable to walk from vehicle but basically was so unwell was not thinking straight. Phoned family member who came to drive vehicle back to residence. Vehicle was in the car park just over 30 minutes. Received today no ticket purchased Parking charge notice from euro cp. Can this be appealed or just normal procedure please
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Sep 18, 5:41 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,470 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 26th Sep 18, 5:41 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Sep 18, 5:41 PM
    Normal template appeal from the NEWBIES thread.

    Then at POPLA stage, use Vine v Waltham Forest (Google and read it, the appeal turned on similar facts and Miss Vine was not held to have seen the signs). Plus the usual template POPLA appeal points from the 3rd post of the NEWBIES thread. If it was night/hours of dusk or darkness, then that can also be expended on at POPLA stage.

    NEVER pull off the road into a private car park, in such circumstances.

    Why do people even do this? I can't understand the thought process of ''I know, I'll go in there''. You would be so much better simply on street, even if you got a PCN, in most towns it would be £25, a quarter of this rip-off (and unlikely to even be issued, as long as you were with the car and visibly ill & waiting to be collected).
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 27-09-2018 at 12:50 AM.
    • onlyfoolsandparking
    • By onlyfoolsandparking 26th Sep 18, 6:13 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 631 Thanks
    onlyfoolsandparking
    • #3
    • 26th Sep 18, 6:13 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Sep 18, 6:13 PM
    And if the OP was as ill as they state they were or anybody else for that matter and your reading this, you would definitely be better off pulling up on street/road because if the Police came they would be able to access medical attention for you quickly.


    Pulling into a Private car park is like getting out of your car in the lions enclosure at a Safari park, actually strike that at least with the Lions it would all be over quickly unlike the PPC,s who love a long painful slow death!!
    The real meaning of life is the pursuit of happiness and avoidance of pain
    • an1179
    • By an1179 13th Oct 18, 9:11 PM
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    an1179
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 9:11 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 18, 9:11 PM
    A reply has now been received as follows

    Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for
    the following reasons:
     The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR).
     Cameras capture an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their
    length of stay on site.
     When purchasing a pay and display ticket, you must enter the correct vehicle registration
    mark (VRM) and this information is directed to the camera system.
     I can confirm that no pay and display ticket matching your VRM was purchased at the time of
    the terms and conditions.
     The signage is clear, a valid pay and display ticket must be purchased for the full duration of
    your stay on the car park.
     The site in question is a private car park and the terms and conditions cannot be compared to
    ‘on-street’ parking.
     The disabled badge handbook will inform the badge holder (or carer) that when they enter a
    private car park they must abide by the rules and regulations of the site.
     If it is a pay and display site a valid pay and display ticket must be purchased.
     A disabled badge will only offer free/extended parking on local authority car parks.
     I can confirm the parking charge notice was issued correctly and remains payable.
    Please make payment of the discounted amount of £60.00 by visiting our website at
    www.eurocarparks.com or use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. Alternatively make
    your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque
    processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN
    number on the reverse of the cheque.This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days
    to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to
    £100.00 and this may also result in the notice being passed to a third party with further charges
    applicable.
    You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Oct 18, 9:41 PM
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    KeithP
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 9:41 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 18, 9:41 PM
    Doesn't that letter go on to say that you can appeal to PoPLA?

    Read post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out how you might do that.
    .
    • an1179
    • By an1179 14th Oct 18, 7:18 AM
    • 1,730 Posts
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    an1179
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 18, 7:18 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 18, 7:18 AM
    Doesn't that letter go on to say that you can appeal to PoPLA?

    Read post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out how you might do that.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Yes it does thanks Keith I am reading and also referring to Vine v Waltham as indicated but she was clamped so I'm not surehow this transfers to my case.

    If the owner appeals and looses then the driver will presumably have to pay the £100. There is also the possibility of having go to court. I can see why people just pay up and mark it down to experience
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 14th Oct 18, 7:24 AM
    • 3,784 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 18, 7:24 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 18, 7:24 AM
    also referring to Vine v Waltham as indicated but she was clamped so I'm not surehow this transfers to my case.
    Explained at the bottom of this posting.They are misquoting (as usual) to baffle the unwary

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5670335&page=3#51

    The Vine case was all about signs and whether the threat could be seen. It wasn't so Vine won - though they don't tell you that (another misleading point).

    Ironically, Vine was in a distressed state as you were.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 14-10-2018 at 7:28 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 14th Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    • 11,318 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    If the owner appeals and looses then the driver will presumably have to pay the £100.
    Originally posted by an1179
    Where did you get that idea from?

    An appeal lost at PoPLA certainly does not mean that the motorist has to pay anything.
    .
    • an1179
    • By an1179 31st Oct 18, 10:16 AM
    • 1,730 Posts
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    an1179
    • #9
    • 31st Oct 18, 10:16 AM
    • #9
    • 31st Oct 18, 10:16 AM
    Thank for your help is there a time limit to appeal to POPLA?

    Should I get a witness statement from the person that went to the drivers aid and should they put their name and address on the witness statement please?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 31st Oct 18, 10:41 AM
    • 10,702 Posts
    • 10,087 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Thank for your help is there a time limit to appeal to POPLA?

    Should I get a witness statement from the person that went to the drivers aid and should they put their name and address on the witness statement please?
    Originally posted by an1179
    Probably a waste of time. From POPLA FAQ

    If you have appealed to POPLA on the grounds of mitigating circumstances (a reason beyond your control that prevented you from fulfilling the Terms and Conditions of the parking contract), it is less likely that your appeal will be successful. This is because POPLA is not able to allow an appeal for mitigating circumstances. In the event that the assessor finds a mitigating circumstance to be the reason for the parking charge being issued, the assessor can request the parking operator to consider this, but cannot enforce it.

    If a parking operator has already rejected your appeal based on the mitigating circumstance you plan to bring to POPLA, it is unlikely it will agree to it the second time around.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 31st Oct 18, 10:57 AM
    • 9,677 Posts
    • 12,737 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Probably a waste of time. From POPLA FAQ

    If you have appealed to POPLA on the grounds of mitigating circumstances (a reason beyond your control that prevented you from fulfilling the Terms and Conditions of the parking contract), it is less likely that your appeal will be successful. This is because POPLA is not able to allow an appeal for mitigating circumstances. In the event that the assessor finds a mitigating circumstance to be the reason for the parking charge being issued, the assessor can request the parking operator to consider this, but cannot enforce it.

    If a parking operator has already rejected your appeal based on the mitigating circumstance you plan to bring to POPLA, it is unlikely it will agree to it the second time around.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    And that is the problem with POPLA, all contrived by the BPA who state they are driving standards upwards ..... utter rubbish

    We need a system like The Traffic Penalty Tribunal who are independent and who are financed by the councils but NO "Old Boys Club" as in the private industry
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 31st Oct 18, 11:01 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    That is not a mitigating circumstance!
    No contract was seen
    No contract was accepted
    No contract was breached. This WS supports that

    of course there is a time limit. It should even tell you how long the code is valid, but post 3 covers this. 28 days.
    • an1179
    • By an1179 31st Oct 18, 11:23 AM
    • 1,730 Posts
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    an1179
    Yes 28 days from Date: 13/10/2018. Thank you all I have got photos now of car park so I'll out my case together thanks , next time I should have the draft for you
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 31st Oct 18, 11:45 AM
    • 2,884 Posts
    • 3,624 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    who owns ... where is the car park? have you appealed to them ?



    Ralph
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 31st Oct 18, 11:55 AM
    • 11,002 Posts
    • 10,969 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed in the house as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an
    M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • an1179
    • By an1179 31st Oct 18, 12:51 PM
    • 1,730 Posts
    • 17,035 Thanks
    an1179
    who owns ... where is the car park? have you appealed to them ?





    Ralph
    Originally posted by Ralph-y
    Yes I appealed that the driver was ill and sent a copy of blue badge, They rejected my appeal.

    It was dark and the driver was not well

    Eastgate Louth carpark Eurocarparks they attached a photo of their charges board in daylight. The charges board is lit at night but not visible from the road. The other signs placed around the car park are not visible in the dark as the only other additional light is a light on the camera post which is triggered by movement
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 31st Oct 18, 1:01 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    No, we asked WHO OWNS THE CARPARK
    It is likely not eurocarparks but someone else

    THAT is who you need to ask to cancel as well.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 31st Oct 18, 1:54 PM
    • 10,702 Posts
    • 10,087 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    That is not a mitigating circumstance!
    No contract was seen
    No contract was accepted
    No contract was breached. This WS supports that.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Well if you are right, then OP will win at POPLA, won't they? Care to put some money on it? Bet Beamerguy would take the same bet with you.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 31st Oct 18, 2:03 PM
    • 4,158 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    I can be right and POPLA can still refuse the appeal.
    POPLAs standards of training are low enough that the operator can submit an evidence pack relating to an entirely different car park, and still find in favour of the operator.
    • an1179
    • By an1179 31st Oct 18, 5:59 PM
    • 1,730 Posts
    • 17,035 Thanks
    an1179
    No, we asked WHO OWNS THE CARPARK
    It is likely not eurocarparks but someone else

    THAT is who you need to ask to cancel as well.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    I don't know who owns the car park unless it is on the notice in really small red writing on a yellow background
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