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  • FIRST POST
    • Bond00
    • By Bond00 15th Sep 18, 4:01 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 27Thanks
    Bond00
    Given a parking ticket that had time left on it but now have been fined by a private comapny
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 18, 4:01 PM
    Given a parking ticket that had time left on it but now have been fined by a private comapny 15th Sep 18 at 4:01 PM
    This is my first time posting and l would appreciate some advice. My father went went into a car park near the bank and a helpful lady gave him her ticket. My dad was going to pay the pound but thanked her took it and displayed it whilst he went to the bank.He thought nothing of it but today a parking letter has arrived,stating that he is liable for 50.00 which will increase to 90 if not paid because of transferring a ticket to another car. I have yet to see the signs on the car park or see the full letter. Whatever people's views on this it was given as a gesture of goodwill and accepted. Apparently they have photographic evidence? l have told him not to pay it yet,and l am very annoyed that he has hand out his money to such bandits.
    I would welcome advice and l am willing to act on his behalf.
    Last edited by Bond00; 19-09-2018 at 6:38 PM.
Page 2
    • Bond00
    • By Bond00 16th Sep 18, 6:40 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Bond00
    Hello l looked at the letter,a photo of car and ticket. The machine doesn't require reg number.lt says mobile camera in use and ANPR but l can't see where. He said a person on his return waited till he was just about to pull out in a queue and took a photo.The person seemed to be using his mobile to take a photo of the machine. The time observed was a few minutes.The person taking photo didn't appear to be official.The car park is small. It has the old machine where you press the green button to issue the ticket.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Sep 18, 6:57 PM
    • 19,877 Posts
    • 25,178 Thanks
    Redx
    its a private company so whoever took that photo is probably their parking chimp, on a commission, so the mobile camera is that persons camera , their C.E.O.

    basically , a private CEO took the picture and reported the vehicle for not purchasing the 1 ticket, possibly they saw the handover of the ticket he obtained from the "good samaritan that wasnt" , I suspect that the ticket stated it was "not transferable" or similar ?

    Their car parks are cheap but woe betide anyone not paying the 1 or whatever the cost is

    NAPIER then paid the DVLA 2.50p for the keeper data and sent that person (your father ?) the NTK demanding payment of 50 for early payment

    most of this has no relevance to the issue at hand , its merely working out the sequence of events that led to your elderly father receiving the INVOICE from Napier. it is receipt of this invoice that is his current legal problem, not necessarily how he got it

    in my opinion, if he decides NOT TO PAY, then he and nobody else but he , faces up to 6 years of harassment and debt collector letters, followed by solicitor letters from B W LEGAL or similar

    then , within that 6 years , if Napier or their solicitors issues an MCOL then he faces a civil court case which he will have to defend in his local county court (and in my opinion, will lose based on the info you have provided)

    the question is, can an 83 year old carer really deal with this and is he prepared to go to his local county court and persuade a judge that he is not liable for the charge ?

    if he fails and loses, he faces a bill of about 170 including court fees , to be paid within one month of the CCJ being issued , or if he fails to pay then Napier could push it to enforcement using court bailiffs, with added costs

    these are the real issues, the "what happened on the day" are merely the explanations that lead us to this current legal wrangle which is where he is right now

    I would say the 50 should be paid and that is the end of the matter, which is a harsh lesson for him to learn, but may prevent a repeat (ie:- you pay the 1 upfront fee to avoid having to pay 50 or even 90, or even 170 , LATER)

    he should also be made aware that these companies infest supermarkets, doctors surgeries , retail parks , leisure centres and hospitals etc, so to be very , VERY careful in future

    it is his choice if he has the **** to front it out, or cut and run and pay the least amount of money which he can at the moment
    Last edited by Redx; 16-09-2018 at 7:59 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Bond00
    • By Bond00 16th Sep 18, 7:41 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Bond00
    Ok Redx thanks for your help. It's a sad reflection of our world, let's hope the bosses enjoy the money gained from a scam allowed by our government.lts certainly opened my eyes, all of this. The only good thing to come out of this is that there are people willing to help,like all those who have replied on here. The world isn't full of cheaters and scammers, only in car parks!!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Sep 18, 8:30 PM
    • 37,935 Posts
    • 22,037 Thanks
    Quentin
    Explain to him not to accept any more "time left on here" tickets from "Good Samaritans" preying on young Mums/Older Pensioners etc!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Sep 18, 8:37 PM
    • 63,841 Posts
    • 76,499 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    He should still send the SAR to Napier, for all evidence and data held. Why not send it to the Data Protection Officer in his name (signed by him) and ask them to also note that his address for service is (your postal address) so it comes back to you instead.

    There might be scope to complain to the Information Commissioner.

    Also, if this is local, can you hang out there one afternoon and watch and film this 'lady' and this 'ticketer' in action in case they do it again, and at least to prove the person taking the photos is not wearing any uniform, and any other conduct you can catch them doing?

    I feel if they've done this once, it's likely to be commonplace, and I do not believe for one second the lady was an ordinary driver. Catch them at whatever game they might be playing and your Dad would be able to report them to the ICO, the DVLA, the IPC, and Trading Standards.

    That would be ultimate revenge, and would stop others being caught like this.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Sep 18, 8:39 PM
    • 9,270 Posts
    • 12,199 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Ok Redx thanks for your help. It's a sad reflection of our world, let's hope the bosses enjoy the money gained from a scam allowed by our government.lts certainly opened my eyes, all of this. The only good thing to come out of this is that there are people willing to help,like all those who have replied on here. The world isn't full of cheaters and scammers, only in car parks!!
    Originally posted by Bond00
    I don't think government fully understands the scam although
    with the new bill going through, there are MP's who do
    understand. Right now, government is too busy busy
    screwing up brexit

    You have PM'd me. I hope you follow my advice and post
    here what has happened
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Bond00
    • By Bond00 16th Sep 18, 8:46 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Bond00
    I visited this car park which is very small and very empty on the evening. The machine is self ticketed, just put in your money and press the green button. No reg details. I saw no cameras or ANPR, l don't think they would waste their money on such a small car park.
    However, there were 2 cars on the car park. One car had a couple of individuals who watched me like a hawk. I pretended to decide upon my space.Got out the car,looked at the ticket machine and went in my car to get the money.I wanted to have a physical ticket ( Plus l read they charge you just for looking for a few minutes..l don't want a ticket!!) These guys were very interested in what l was doing.l took my phone out,photographed everywhere and they left rather quickly.
    My dads letter identifies a car and ticket on dashboard. It gives a 3 minute time period. My dad said just as he got out of his car before he reached the machine he was approached and given a ticket. As he was leaving he noticed a guy taking a photo of the machine and signage using a mobile phone.He thought nothing of it till he was behind a driver just about to drive off the car park,when a person used his phone to take a picture of the car. This individual didn't appear official,if this was the case then the ticket would have gone on his car whilst parked.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Sep 18, 8:50 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 10,042 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Ok Redx thanks for your help. It's a sad reflection of our world, let's hope the bosses enjoy the money gained from a scam allowed by our government.lts certainly opened my eyes, all of this. The only good thing to come out of this is that there are people willing to help,like all those who have replied on here. The world isn't full of cheaters and scammers, only in car parks!!
    Originally posted by Bond00
    My previous posts show I am NOT on the side of PPCs in any way, but the only "cheater" in this thread, if you pardon me, is your Dad. I can go along with the use of scammers for the PPCs but can't see how they cheated here. Sorry.

    Now I have given and accepted tickets for parking and even given people a park entry wrist band for an Eco park. I was fully aware that they and I were cheating as far as the wrist band went but I had the foresight to see what t&c were in place before using a 2nd hand parking ticket.

    As I wrote earlier, check what the scheme in place at the car park is before paying up
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Sep 18, 8:53 PM
    • 9,270 Posts
    • 12,199 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Guys Dad ...... did you miss post#30 ???
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Sep 18, 9:01 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 10,042 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Guys Dad ...... did you miss post#30 ???
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    Doesn't actually tell us what the sign says about tickets not being transferable, if the ticket has no vehicle registration number.

    Indeed, how can they then prove that the ticket was not bought buy your dad unless they say that one of their staff actually was complicit in the fraud? And then watch them lose DVLA access!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Sep 18, 9:24 PM
    • 19,877 Posts
    • 25,178 Thanks
    Redx
    there is no doubt in my mind that your dad was duped and clearly you were onto them and their possible dupe when you pretended to park up etc


    the GDPR thread by coupon-mad is a good source of info about SAR,s including template examples
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Sep 18, 9:25 PM
    • 9,270 Posts
    • 12,199 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Doesn't actually tell us what the sign says about tickets not being transferable, if the ticket has no vehicle registration number.

    Indeed, how can they then prove that the ticket was not bought buy your dad unless they say that one of their staff actually was complicit in the fraud? And then watch them lose DVLA access!
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    YES, and that is why the OP should SAR for information and if
    Napier come back with a pack of lies, then is the time to
    report them to the DVLA

    No point in involving the IPC as they support their scammers
    as do the head HONCHO .... Gladstones solicitors
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Sep 18, 9:40 PM
    • 20,233 Posts
    • 31,918 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I then make an appeal to the parking company which gets rejected, l go to popla.
    But this is Napier, it can't go to POPLA. They are IPC operators.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Sep 18, 9:43 PM
    • 63,841 Posts
    • 76,499 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    by submitted a SAR does this now form part of an appeal in respect of the parking company
    No. And I though he had already appealed and been turned down? Appeal is over then, no point, this is an IPC firm, there is no POPLA, nothing fair that can work.

    NO-ONE will tell you to try IAS stage.

    or do l need to specify this separately?
    Yes, to their Data Protection Officer.

    It's a SAR, there are loads of threads about SARs and what to put/who to send it to.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-09-2018 at 9:54 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th Sep 18, 9:44 PM
    • 4,688 Posts
    • 6,073 Thanks
    waamo
    A SAR is completely different and separate from any appeal you make.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Sep 18, 9:54 PM
    • 63,841 Posts
    • 76,499 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I really want you to tell us next week you have filmed them conspiring to do this. Ultimate revenge.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Bond00
    • By Bond00 17th Sep 18, 9:57 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Bond00
    Coupon mad,sorry l am completely confused. I have been advised to request a SAR.l haven't replied to the letter at this stage.l haven't formally appealed because l do not fully know what evidence they have.The letter had a photo of car and ticket on dashboard. My dad believes this was taken by an individual just prior to driving off the car park. I don't even know if this individual is formally employed by them or is using an app on their phone to gain a tenner.I have searched through many of the threads but l cannot locate examples of SAR templates only the one to the DVLA. I am perhaps not utilising this correctly. My issue is that they are saying this ticket was transferred and l have to be careful how l act on this.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Sep 18, 10:03 PM
    • 20,233 Posts
    • 31,918 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    l cannot locate examples of SAR templates
    But I gave you the link to SAR examples (not templates) in post #21, over two days ago. If you want regulars to give freely of their time to help you, we do expect you to at least read what we are advising.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Sep 18, 10:25 PM
    • 19,877 Posts
    • 25,178 Thanks
    Redx
    read posts #47 and #49 again then (in the supplied link)

    and although YOU may be doing the composing and writing, it is your FATHER who will be requesting it, as he is the named party (not you). I have no idea why you think that YOU are doing all of this

    you are assisting him, you cannot request those details yourself , anything you do is underwritten by him, signed by him, sent in his name (unless you have power of attorney ?)

    I hope I am clear on that ?

    as for replying to Napier, either your dad is paying them the 50 asap, or appealing (which will be turned down)

    if he is appealing , then there is no doubt in my mind that sometime in the next 6 years he will be paying them, despite you stating that he wont be paying them (I can assure you that he will be paying them and whatever you say wont stop it happening , but it may be a judge that tells him and you if you are present in court)

    you are gathering evidence about their little sc@m , but that does not stop this process from continuing, and sending a SAR does not stop it either

    this pcn is a small snowball rollling down the hill, gathering momentum and gets bigger the longer that it rolls

    I was like you 6 years ago, but like most regulars on here we have a wealth of accumulated knowledge, whereas you are trying to cram the night before the exam, you cannot and will not learn about this topic in days , just like you did not learn to drive and pass your test in days


    I have re-read this thread from start to finish, and you have received the best free advice there is, sometimes repeatedly (like the SAR info)
    Last edited by Redx; 17-09-2018 at 10:43 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th Sep 18, 10:42 PM
    • 4,688 Posts
    • 6,073 Thanks
    waamo
    A SAR really doesn't need to be complicated. You simply tell them you want all the information they hold on you. Include as much detail as you can ie name, address vehicle registration but don't go overboard.

    It's a simple as that really.
    This space for hire.
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