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  • FIRST POST
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 15th Sep 18, 3:01 PM
    • 39Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    Link Financial Outsourcing dispute
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 18, 3:01 PM
    Link Financial Outsourcing dispute 15th Sep 18 at 3:01 PM
    I have a credit card debt on which I have been making repayments to Link Financial Outsourcing for a number of years now. The debt is now 14 years old, and the CAB helped me to sort out the repayments, and stop the interest, way back in 2004.

    Back in February of this year I wrote to ask for a copy of the relevant CCA. Hearing nothing from them I chased it up in early April, but still heard nothing at all.

    I note that on the “Complaint and Conclusion” form, in paragraph 6, it states that:
    “I agree that the account is currently unenforceable.”
    But in the next paragraph it continues to say that they request I continue to pay. Would I therefore be correct in assuming that they might take me court to enforce payment because they don’t have a copy of the CCA?

    Finally, this morning I had another letter saying that my case had been referred to their Specialist Support Team and quoting the reason as being: “in order for us to find an appropriate solution for you.”

    They continued by saying that they would telephone me on the number they have for me, or that I could telephone them, which I shall not be doing. They will have trouble contacting me that way as, apart from having a Scam Blocker on my phone, they don’t have my number, I’ve never given it to them and won’t be doing so in future.

    So I don’t know if I should write to them pointing out that I’m still waiting for the CCA copy, or just wait until they contact me again.

    And, one other question: Is there a legal requirement to send them an income and expenditure form whenever they ask me to complete one?

    I’ll check back tomorrow so thanks for any advice anyone can give.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 15-09-2018 at 4:44 PM. Reason: Removal of personal information.
    Liz R
Page 1
    • Willing2Learn
    • By Willing2Learn 15th Sep 18, 3:34 PM
    • 1,442 Posts
    • 1,097 Thanks
    Willing2Learn
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 18, 3:34 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 18, 3:34 PM
    Hi Liz,

    I've just seen your full name, postal address and Link account number on one of the images you have posted. Please URGENTLY edit this as your personal information should not be visible.
    Last edited by Willing2Learn; 15-09-2018 at 3:39 PM.
    I work within the voluntary sector, supporting vulnerable people to rebuild their lives.

    I love my job

    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Sep 18, 4:48 PM
    • 15,248 Posts
    • 14,347 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 18, 4:48 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 18, 4:48 PM
    Hi Liz,


    I have edited your post to remove those links, because, as pointed out above, your personal information was still visible.

    Liz, aside from that, you have a really good defense to this issue, you made a CCA request to Link Financial, they have not responded, therefore they are in breech of your request.

    The account concerned is currently unenforceable in court until they do respond to you, they can ask you to pay, but cannot enforce there rights through the courts, basically they can`t do anything.

    You are under no obligation to do anything you do not want to do, Link are just a debt collector, they have no power or authority whatsoever.

    That is the current position, you should write and tell them you will not be paying any further sums until your CCA request is complied with correctly..
    Last edited by sourcrates; 15-09-2018 at 4:53 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 15th Sep 18, 9:54 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    Just Di
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 18, 9:54 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 18, 9:54 PM
    I have a credit card debt on which I have been making repayments to Link Financial Outsourcing for a number of years now. The debt is now 14 years old, and the CAB helped me to sort out the repayments, and stop the interest, way back in 2004.

    Back in February of this year I wrote to ask for a copy of the relevant CCA. Hearing nothing from them I chased it up in early April, but still heard nothing at all.

    I note that on the “Complaint and Conclusion” form, in paragraph 6, it states that:
    “I agree that the account is currently unenforceable.”
    But in the next paragraph it continues to say that they request I continue to pay. Would I therefore be correct in assuming that they might take me court to enforce payment because they don’t have a copy of the CCA?

    Finally, this morning I had another letter saying that my case had been referred to their Specialist Support Team and quoting the reason as being: “in order for us to find an appropriate solution for you.”

    They continued by saying that they would telephone me on the number they have for me, or that I could telephone them, which I shall not be doing. They will have trouble contacting me that way as, apart from having a Scam Blocker on my phone, they don’t have my number, I’ve never given it to them and won’t be doing so in future.

    So I don’t know if I should write to them pointing out that I’m still waiting for the CCA copy, or just wait until they contact me again.

    And, one other question: Is there a legal requirement to send them an income and expenditure form whenever they ask me to complete one?

    I’ll check back tomorrow so thanks for any advice anyone can give.
    Originally posted by Lz?Kithra

    Link Financial is a debt purchaser as well as a DCA so can you clarify whether the debt has been assigned (i.e.) sold to them.

    Link typically use Kearns Solicitors which they own.

    Who is/was the original creditor?

    From what you say Link has admitted that the debt is unenforceable due to the debt owner’s non compliance with your s77-79 CCA Request so you need to decide what to do next.

    Di
    Last edited by Just Di; 15-09-2018 at 10:05 PM.
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. Any posts I make are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you're unsure please seek formal legal guidance
    • lolo2210
    • By lolo2210 16th Sep 18, 11:01 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lolo2210
    • #5
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:01 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:01 AM
    Link Financial are a terrible company. My late father (passed away unexpectedly this year aged only 65), apparently owed them money. I have asked them if it is statute barred..they reply to nothing apart from to ask me to list all of his debts and companies- which legally I do not have to do. I have now reported them to the ombudsman for non-replying to my request for whether it is statute barred (5 years in Scotland) and thus unenforceable. No answer yet if they have an original contract etc. Ridiculous.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 16th Sep 18, 11:23 AM
    • 15,248 Posts
    • 14,347 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #6
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:23 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:23 AM
    Link Financial are a terrible company. My late father (passed away unexpectedly this year aged only 65), apparently owed them money. I have asked them if it is statute barred..they reply to nothing apart from to ask me to list all of his debts and companies- which legally I do not have to do. I have now reported them to the ombudsman for non-replying to my request for whether it is statute barred (5 years in Scotland) and thus unenforceable. No answer yet if they have an original contract etc. Ridiculous.
    Originally posted by lolo2210
    Hi,

    Sorry to hear about your dad.

    Debts do not pass between people, as your dad has passed away, his debts go away too, only he was liable for them no one else.

    They cannot chase anyone else for them, not you, me, or anyone.

    His debt died with him, donít let them tell you otherwise.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 11:46 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:46 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:46 AM
    Thanks for editing my post Sourcrates. I messaged willing2learn saying Iíd edit them but, on 2nd thoughts, as youíve so kindly removed them I donít think Iíll bother to put them back in.

    What concerned me was that even though they havenít sent a copy of the CCA Iíve read on-line that, when they donít have such a copy, the debt company can go to court and try to establish that the debt is still owing.

    So Iíll take your advice and write to them saying that they are in breach of my request until they supply the CCA copy and I will not be paying anything until they can do so. In that letter Iíll also point out the sentence from their reply saying that it is currently unenforceable. And if, after that, they continue to hassle me Iíll get some legal advice.
    Liz R
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 11:48 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:48 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:48 AM
    Thanks Just Di.
    My original creditor was Capital One, and the debt was sold on a few times before it ended up with Link.
    Liz R
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 11:49 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:49 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 18, 11:49 AM
    Lolo2210
    My condolences on the loss of your dad.
    Liz R
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 16th Sep 18, 12:38 PM
    • 12,681 Posts
    • 9,755 Thanks
    fatbelly
    What concerned me was that even though they havenít sent a copy of the CCA Iíve read on-line that, when they donít have such a copy, the debt company can go to court and try to establish that the debt is still owing.
    Originally posted by Lz?Kithra
    Technically they are allowed to start a claim but you would then ask for a 'stay' as the account is unenforceable under s77-9

    So in practice, unless they come up with (or can reconstitute) your agreement there is no point in them spending money on starting a court claim.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 16th Sep 18, 12:44 PM
    • 12,681 Posts
    • 9,755 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Link Financial are a terrible company. My late father (passed away unexpectedly this year aged only 65), apparently owed them money. I have asked them if it is statute barred..they reply to nothing apart from to ask me to list all of his debts and companies- which legally I do not have to do. I have now reported them to the ombudsman for non-replying to my request for whether it is statute barred (5 years in Scotland) and thus unenforceable. No answer yet if they have an original contract etc. Ridiculous.
    Originally posted by lolo2210
    I realise that you are just passing comment on Link, and I agree that they are as bad as most of the debt purchasers.

    Technically the executor or personal representative of your father's estate would be required to establish if there is a net balance after funeral costs and distribute this to your father's creditors. If not, that's the end of the matter.

    The statute barred angle may not be relevant if there was no net estate.

    I know that Scottish law is often different and that under Scottish law the situation is more black and white as a statute barred debt is 'extinguished' - if your situation becomes a problem you could start your own thread perhaps on the Deaths, Funerals and probate board, or on this one.
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 1:23 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    Thanks fatbelly, if they want to take it to court I'll definitely ask for a "stay". And, as the debt is only just over £1,200 it might be too expensive for them to go the court for such a smallish sum.


    I'm still not exactly sure what a reconstituted copy is, especially as this goes all the way back to 2004 under the 1974 act which, I believe, has since been changed for debts after a certain date.
    Liz R
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 16th Sep 18, 1:26 PM
    • 5,259 Posts
    • 5,360 Thanks
    poppasmurf_bewdley
    Thanks for editing my post Sourcrates. I messaged willing2learn saying Iíd edit them but, on 2nd thoughts, as youíve so kindly removed them I donít think Iíll bother to put them back in.

    What concerned me was that even though they havenít sent a copy of the CCA Iíve read on-line that, when they donít have such a copy, the debt company can go to court and try to establish that the debt is still owing.

    So Iíll take your advice and write to them saying that they are in breach of my request until they supply the CCA copy and I will not be paying anything until they can do so. In that letter Iíll also point out the sentence from their reply saying that it is currently unenforceable. And if, after that, they continue to hassle me Iíll get some legal advice.
    Originally posted by Lz?Kithra
    It was shortly after doing exactly this to the DCA handling my £4k debt to NatWest from the 1990's that I got a letter from NatWest HQ saying the whole thing had been written off and the matter was closed.

    Hopefully, you will get the same.
    "There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe a 'Princess Coronation' locomotive in full cry. We shall never see their like again". O S Nock
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 1:29 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    poppasmurf, well done. I'm so pleased to hear you had such a great outcome. I can only hope that mine goes the same way, but I'm not keeping my fingers crossed, LOL.
    Liz R
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 1:45 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    This is the letter I have written to them, as sourcrates suggested that I write to them:


    "Thank you for your reply, and the copy of your Final Response dated 19th April, 2018 which, obviously, should have been sent at the time instead of all these months later.

    I note that on the “Complaint Review and Conclusion Form” the sentence that states: “… the account is currently unenforceable, until such a time when we are able to provide the necessary documents.” Therefore, as you are still in breach of my request for a copy of the CCA I will not be making any further payments until such time as you are able to comply.

    Yesterday I also received a letter from the Specialist Support Team saying Link were going to telephone me on the number I had provided to talk about the account. This will be difficult for you as, not only does my phone have a Scam Blocker I have NEVER provided you with my telephone number, nor will I do so in future. If you had read all the correspondence in my file you would have noted that I only correspond in writing."


    If it seems OK then I'll send it to them tomorrow. Many thanks.
    Liz R
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 16th Sep 18, 1:52 PM
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    • 9,755 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Thanks fatbelly, if they want to take it to court I'll definitely ask for a "stay". And, as the debt is only just over £1,200 it might be too expensive for them to go the court for such a smallish sum.

    I'm still not exactly sure what a reconstituted copy is, especially as this goes all the way back to 2004 under the 1974 act which, I believe, has since been changed for debts after a certain date.
    Originally posted by Lz?Kithra
    A reconstituted copy (not the original but one that contains all the prescribed terms of the original) complies with the s77-79 requirements but as yours is pre-2007 you still have s 127(3) to rely on:

    The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).
    As there appears to no evidence you signed anything, you are in a relatively strong position.
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 16th Sep 18, 1:54 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    Many thanks for the explanation, fatbelly. I think I understand it much more clearly now.
    Liz R
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 17th Sep 18, 4:27 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    Just Di
    if they want to take it to court I'll definitely ask for a "stay". And, as the debt is only just over £1,200 it might be too expensive for them to go the court for such a smallish sum.
    Originally posted by Lz?Kithra
    It seems you are a long way off them taking you to court, and there are things which you can do now to build a case against them in case they do decide to issue.

    The court fee for making an online claim for a debt between £1k and £1.5k is only £70 so it's not much of a deterrent, plus the fact that in the Small Claims Court the loser doesn't pay the winner's legal costs so they wouldn't be taking a risk on increasing the debt if their claim was unsuccessful.

    Debt purchasers tend to gamble on the fact that 90% of claims go straight to a Default Judgment (CCJ) because the Defendant fails to meet the court deadlines.

    However they would be investing their time and resources if you defended any claim meaning the case would trundle on through the court system for months which may make them hesitate (or Discontinue the claim once they realise they can't win) but don't count on it.

    At the moment they have not complied with your s 77-78 CCA Request which helps Did you keep a copy of the Request you sent and their responses?

    If this was a Capital One credit card then they may have a problem with proving a Default Notice was issued/served (a common headache for the debt purchaser). Sometimes Link issue their own DN which is no remedy since an account must be defaulted (preceded by a S87(1) Default Notice) before it is terminated and assigned to the next entity.

    If they were to take you to court you may be better off seeking a 'strike-out' of their claim rather than a 'stay' which may give them time to remedy the problem (reconstitute a convincing credit agreement).

    Anyway it's too early to talk about a claim since they've not even sent you a Letter Before Claim which gives you 30 days to reply which is the time to challenge them.

    See what they say/do next, and whatever you do don't be confrontational.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. Any posts I make are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you're unsure please seek formal legal guidance
    • Lz?Kithra
    • By Lz?Kithra 17th Sep 18, 4:33 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Lz?Kithra
    Many thanks for all that information Di. Unless they comply with my 77-78 CCA Request I'll definitely contest any litigation by asking for a strike out. And yes, I keep printed copies of everything, and have done for years. You should see the size of my files, LOL. I sent my reply letter to them today and will now wait to see what happens next.
    Liz R
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 17th Sep 18, 4:34 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    Just Di
    And, one other question: Is there a legal requirement to send them an income and expenditure form whenever they ask me to complete one?
    Originally posted by Lz?Kithra
    The straight answer to your question is No there is no legal requirement for you to send them an Income & Expenditure Form.

    Only a Judge can make an Order that you must do that

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. Any posts I make are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you're unsure please seek formal legal guidance
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