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  • FIRST POST
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 14th Sep 18, 8:21 PM
    • 12Posts
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    c00k1e316
    Complex Right To By / Ownership Situation
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:21 PM
    Complex Right To By / Ownership Situation 14th Sep 18 at 8:21 PM
    Looking for some advice on a complex home ownership situation.

    My mother and I lived in our council house for 25 years (since I was 5 years old) - I bought the house under right to buy.

    Both our names are on the title deed - the council said this had to be the case as my mother was the tenant and I was living with her as her child.

    The agreement states that if we sold the house in 5 years after the purchase, we would have to payback the discount. I bought it 2 years ago.

    My mam is now living with my gran as her full time carer and as the house is mine, we'd both like to take her name off the title deed.

    The government website states:
    Youll have to pay back some or all of the discount you got if you sell your Right to Buy home within 5 years of buying it.

    Youll have to pay back all of the discount if you sell within the first year. After that, the total amount you pay back reduces to:

    80% of the discount in the second year
    60% of the discount in the third year
    40% of the discount in the fourth year
    20% of the discount in the fifth year
    The amount you pay back depends on the value of your home when you sell it.


    You may not have to pay back the discount if you transfer ownership of your home to a member of your family. Youll need to agree this first with your landlord and then get a solicitor to do this for you.
    Would there be any implication of having her name removed from the deeds? I know we would have to go through a solicitor and submit the documents to the land registry but as no cash sale is taking place and no one new is taking on the house? Im not sure its technically even a transfer of ownership as im already named on the deeds and we simply want to remove Mam? I'd like to think she could be removed without consequence?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks

    Ben
Page 1
    • dimbo61
    • By dimbo61 14th Sep 18, 8:49 PM
    • 10,071 Posts
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    dimbo61
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:49 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:49 PM
    Well you need to ask the council.
    If your mum needs care herself in the future the council may look at deprivation of assets
    You need a solicitor to read the documents you and mum signed 2 years ago.
    The mortgage lender will also need to agree to mum coming off the mortgage and deeds.
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 14th Sep 18, 8:56 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    c00k1e316
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:56 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:56 PM
    Thanks, There is no mortgage - I paid for the property in full at time of purchase.
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 14th Sep 18, 9:51 PM
    • 36,231 Posts
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    McKneff
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 18, 9:51 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 18, 9:51 PM
    Surely, legally, your mother actually owns half the house, whether you paid for it or not.
    As above, deprivation of assets could rear its head in the future for you both
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 14th Sep 18, 10:44 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    c00k1e316
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 18, 10:44 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 18, 10:44 PM
    I’m not sure that would be an issue - she’s a healthy 58 year old and see below from Age UK site?

    What if I gave my money or home away a long time ago?

    The timing is important. The council will look at when you reduced your assets and see if, at the time, you could reasonably expect that you would need care and support. The local authority must decide based on all the case facts and clear reasons, which could be challenged.

    If you were fit and healthy, and could not have imagined needing care and support at the time, then it may not count as deprivation of assets.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 14th Sep 18, 10:48 PM
    • 5,208 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 18, 10:48 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 18, 10:48 PM
    The house isn't yours. The house is owned jointly between you and your mother. The fact that you paid for it doesn't change that ownership. You knew that your mother would own half the house when you bought it because this is what the council told you were the rules for the Right to Buy. Your mother had to own it with you because she was the tenant with the Right to Buy. You could not buy it on your own. What this means is that you gave your mother the money to buy her half when you paid for the whole house. If you hadn't given her the money to buy her half you would not have been able to use Right to Buy.



    You cannot take that money back by just taking her name off the deeds. She will still own that money and that is where deprivation of assets comes in. If she needs care in the future that money will be expected to be used to pay for it.



    This is not just a case of your mother owning this money it is also the case that if she doesn't own any part of this house she could become homeless. Just as your mother might need to pay for care so her mother might need to as well and if your gran owns her house and that has to be sold to pay for care where will your mother live?



    You knew when you bought this house that it was going to be in joint ownership. It is possible that your mother hasn't thought this through properly and hasn't thought about what will happen if you gran has to go into long term care. It is also possible that you mistakenly think that you own the whole house because you paid for it.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 14th Sep 18, 10:51 PM
    • 5,208 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 18, 10:51 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 18, 10:51 PM
    Im not sure that would be an issue - shes a healthy 58 year old and see below from Age UK site?

    What if I gave my money or home away a long time ago?

    The timing is important. The council will look at when you reduced your assets and see if, at the time, you could reasonably expect that you would need care and support. The local authority must decide based on all the case facts and clear reasons, which could be challenged.

    If you were fit and healthy, and could not have imagined needing care and support at the time, then it may not count as deprivation of assets.
    Originally posted by c00k1e316

    I knew that you and your mother wouldn't have thought this through properly.



    What happens if your gran needs long term care and her house has to be sold to pay for it? Where will your mother live then? This isn't just about you and what you want. As you say she is 58. Where will she live if your gran's house has to be sold?
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 14th Sep 18, 11:51 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    c00k1e316
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 18, 11:51 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 18, 11:51 PM
    I really think you should perhaps keep what you think you know to yourself - it’s a little condescending. My mother was never in a position to purchase the house and would have been paying rent the rest of her life - she will never be without a home for as long as she lives and I’d appreciate if you kept your moral opinions out of the situation.

    The question I asked was, can we transfer the equity in the house before the 5 year discount limit seen as it’s not a sale and I’m already joint owner.

    If anyone could give me a steer on the question I’d be really grateful for the help ����
    • -taff
    • By -taff 15th Sep 18, 12:20 AM
    • 8,668 Posts
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    -taff
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 18, 12:20 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 18, 12:20 AM
    I really think you should perhaps keep what you think you know to yourself - it’s a little condescending. My mother was never in a position to purchase the house and would have been paying rent the rest of her life
    Originally posted by c00k1e316
    That doesn't matter. As above, just because you paid for it, it doesn't mean you own it in it's entirety. It;s half and half. And you got a knock down bargain of a house which you may think you did purely for altruism, but ther people do not. That's not going to change no matter how offended you get about it.


    The question I asked was, can we transfer the equity in the house before the 5 year discount limit seen as it’s not a sale and I’m already joint owner.
    Originally posted by c00k1e316

    As you've already quoted this, you know as much as we do.


    You may not have to pay back the discount if you transfer ownership of your home to a member of your family. You’ll need to agree this first with your landlord and then get a solicitor to do this for you.


    See a solicitor.
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 15th Sep 18, 12:54 AM
    • 578 Posts
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    PersianCatLady
    Why exactly do you want to get your mother's name off of the deeds?
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 15th Sep 18, 12:57 AM
    • 578 Posts
    • 571 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    I really think you should perhaps keep what you think you know to yourself - its a little condescending. My mother was never in a position to purchase the house and would have been paying rent the rest of her life - she will never be without a home for as long as she lives and Id appreciate if you kept your moral opinions out of the situation.

    The question I asked was, can we transfer the equity in the house before the 5 year discount limit seen as its not a sale and Im already joint owner.

    If anyone could give me a steer on the question Id be really grateful for the help ����
    Originally posted by c00k1e316
    How rude are you?

    @Cakeguts was simply trying to illustrate a point about the bigger picture in this situation and you were really rude just because you took his / her advice the wrong way.

    Why did you take their advice the wrong way?

    You seem awfully defensive about something.
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 15th Sep 18, 6:31 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    c00k1e316
    He/she was jumping to conclusions about a situation without knowing all of the facts! How rude to suggest we would commit to something like a house purchase without considering all scenarios!?

    People should be able to ask questions in forums like this without fear of someone attempting to ridicule you.

    I knew you and your mother wouldnt have thought this through properly

    How utterly and completely rude.

    Completely irrelevant, however when my gran passes away, my mother will live with me rent free for as long as she wants to and should the day come she ever needs care, it will be in a privately funded care home and not state funded.

    @taff, I appreciate this is a much as you know however, as you occasionally find on these forums, someone has had a similar experience and may know a little more? That seems to be less and less the case and people prefer to take this opportunity to belittle individuals in what is nothing more than bullying.

    Shameful
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 15th Sep 18, 6:34 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    c00k1e316
    Why exactly do you want to get your mother's name off of the deeds?
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady
    We her name removed from the deeds to allow me to mortgage the house to release the equity for redevelopment. The house, as with most ex council is in need of renovation.

    My mother and I together can only get a 10 year mortgage, however, I alone can get a 25 year.

    It may not be possible for another 3 years but if someone has been through similar Id like some relevant advice

    Thanks
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 15th Sep 18, 7:31 AM
    • 5,149 Posts
    • 3,276 Thanks
    csgohan4
    another right to buy fail thread. OP you bought it WITH your mother at the tax payers expense knowing that your mother is significantly older, any new mortgage would be difficult.


    What will you do should you get your transfer request but your grandmother had to sell her house to fund the care home fees? Where will your mother live? Private care home fees are not cheap??


    Is it you and your mother in the house before? What happens if the family expands? will there be enough room? Privacy for both you and your mother??




    The house isn't yours, it's both yours and your mother's




    As above get legal advice as any attempt at deprivation will be frowned upon
    Last edited by csgohan4; 15-09-2018 at 7:36 AM.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • c00k1e316
    • By c00k1e316 15th Sep 18, 7:34 AM
    • 12 Posts
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    c00k1e316
    Another waste of time response.

    What a joke
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 15th Sep 18, 7:40 AM
    • 5,149 Posts
    • 3,276 Thanks
    csgohan4
    Another waste of time response.

    What a joke
    Originally posted by c00k1e316

    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 15th Sep 18, 7:52 AM
    • 2,426 Posts
    • 4,033 Thanks
    k3lvc
    Another waste of time response.

    What a joke
    Originally posted by c00k1e316
    No - you're not seeing that the joke is that you've entered into an agreement that you now want/need to get out of without understanding the implications.

    Verbal agreements of 'she'll be ok whatever happens, she can always live with me' will not stand up and no solicitor in their right mind is going to agree that from her point of view this is an acceptable deal. !!!! happens during life and in removing her from the deeds you're removing any stability that she's built up over the years during her council tenancy and subsequent joint ownership.

    Is the deal-breaker genuinely that you 'need' a 25yr rather than 10yr mortgage to carry out renovations ??

    Out of interest what's your plan if the council say no to the transfer or look to charge you the fee ?
    Last edited by k3lvc; 15-09-2018 at 7:54 AM.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 15th Sep 18, 8:14 AM
    • 7,545 Posts
    • 6,309 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    You may not have to pay back the discount if you transfer ownership of your home to a member of your family. You’ll need to agree this first with your landlord and then get a solicitor to do this for you.

    The above tells you what you need to do.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Sep 18, 8:24 AM
    • 26,604 Posts
    • 95,921 Thanks
    Davesnave

    It may not be possible for another 3 years but if someone has been through similar I’d like some relevant advice
    Originally posted by c00k1e316
    Even if they have, that advice would be relevant only to their council at that time.

    There are some things that just aren't knowable in advance; you had all the info you're going to get in your first post. It implies individual circumstances are key.

    I have an ongoing situation involving my council. It would be no use at all me asking about it here, as even the council administering places half a mile down the road acts in a different manner from mine.
    A garden is never so good as it will be next year....
    • Lioness Twinkletoes
    • By Lioness Twinkletoes 15th Sep 18, 8:45 AM
    • 1,380 Posts
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    Lioness Twinkletoes
    Shameful
    Originally posted by c00k1e316
    Stealing from your Mum is shameful.
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