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  • FIRST POST
    • sicr
    • By sicr 14th Sep 18, 5:21 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    sicr
    Consumer or Business/Trader?
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 18, 5:21 PM
    Consumer or Business/Trader? 14th Sep 18 at 5:21 PM
    I bought an Apple laptop Online from DABS.com (liquidation on companies house) in Oct 2012, I paid by personal debit card from my personal account.

    The laptop developed a display fault in 2015 which got significantly worse this April, the fault was confirmed as known and covered under an apple repair program for 4 years from purchase (so no longer covered under apples repair program)

    Apple says my only option is to pursue a consumer law claim with the retailer.
    DABS Direct (the retailer) no longer exists (in liquidation on Co.hse)

    I went back to Apple as they only sell through approved channels, they then asked for proof of purchase, I have a bank statement showing the debit card transaction on my personal account. I mentioned that my accountant may have the original receipt. Apple said I was a business so Consumer law doesn't apply and they can do nothing further.

    But when I bought the laptop it was a personal transaction, paid for out of my personal account. It does have some business use as I'm a photographer. but they are rejecting a claim on this technicality, which doesn't feel right.

    any thoughts on this are appreciated
Page 1
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 14th Sep 18, 6:42 PM
    • 3,990 Posts
    • 6,860 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 18, 6:42 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 18, 6:42 PM
    If it was a personal purchase why have you submitted the receipt to your accountant?

    Also why didn't you pursue this when the fault first developed in 2015? It was still within the 4 years Apple were giving at that stage.
    • sicr
    • By sicr 14th Sep 18, 7:16 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sicr
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:16 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:16 PM
    If it was a personal purchase why have you submitted the receipt to your accountant?

    I went sole trade some time after, and at that later time, my accountant advised previous purchases could be claimed as assets. But.. the original purchase was as a consumer

    Also why didn't you pursue this when the fault first developed in 2015? It was still within the 4 years Apple were giving at that stage.

    I did with an apple 'reseller' local to me at the time (I'm a travelling photographer) but they couldn't return it before I was travelling on, I had to live with the fault so I could continue to edit photos etc, but the fault was a warm up type fault, the screen would become useable again after 5-10 mins of weird flashing and flickering. it is what it is.

    I'm looking for more constructive responses please, hindsight is wonderful, but no help to me right now.

    Thank you
    • custardy
    • By custardy 14th Sep 18, 7:22 PM
    • 34,001 Posts
    • 28,894 Thanks
    custardy
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:22 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:22 PM
    Hold up.
    So this is a 6 year old laptop.
    you have no contract with Apple under consumer law
    • sicr
    • By sicr 14th Sep 18, 7:28 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sicr
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:28 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:28 PM
    Hold up.
    So this is a 6 year old laptop.

    Just under..

    you have no contract with Apple under consumer law

    They said I do in the case of DABS being liquidated, but, only if I was a consumer.
    So it now appears to boil down to that interpretation and when it applies
    (at point of sale, I was a consumer)

    Thanks
    • custardy
    • By custardy 14th Sep 18, 7:35 PM
    • 34,001 Posts
    • 28,894 Thanks
    custardy
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:35 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:35 PM
    Hold up.
    So this is a 6 year old laptop.

    Just under..

    you have no contract with Apple under consumer law

    They said I do in the case of DABS being liquidated, but, only if I was a consumer.
    So it now appears to boil down to that interpretation and when it applies
    (at point of sale, I was a consumer)

    Thanks
    Originally posted by sicr
    So if we go down this route.
    Your laptop doesnt have a 6 year warranty,so where does this 'case' come from?
    What do you class as a fair expected lifetime for a laptop? keying in a laptop that travels a lot and is used for business uses as well?
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 14th Sep 18, 7:52 PM
    • 15,972 Posts
    • 21,940 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:52 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:52 PM
    If you are hoping to claim under Sale Of Goods act, then this is a (nearly) 6 year old laptop.

    Business or not, 6 years is a reasonable time for a laptop to last, so even if you could claim under SOGA from the retailer, its value would be zero.

    You may have purchased as a consumer, but chose to then make it a business asset. You therefore have no rights with Apple.

    Either pay for a repair, or buy another.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • bris
    • By bris 14th Sep 18, 8:48 PM
    • 7,896 Posts
    • 6,864 Thanks
    bris
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:48 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:48 PM
    I'm looking for more constructive responses please, hindsight is wonderful, but no help to me right now.

    Thank you [/COLOR]
    by sicr;74790594[COLOR=seagreen
    Yes you are entitled to a full refund plus compensation for the inconvenience this has cost you.


    I hope this make you feel better now.
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 14th Sep 18, 8:54 PM
    • 2,175 Posts
    • 2,961 Thanks
    comeandgo
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:54 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 18, 8:54 PM
    If it was an allowable business asset or expense then you sold it to your business, how you originally purchased it is immaterial.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 14th Sep 18, 9:06 PM
    • 2,842 Posts
    • 2,815 Thanks
    steampowered
    Even if the retailer was still operating, I don't think you could claim against them.

    6 years is a reasonable amount of time for a laptop to last.
    • dj1471
    • By dj1471 14th Sep 18, 9:47 PM
    • 1,298 Posts
    • 901 Thanks
    dj1471
    As Apple weren't the retailer they have no obligation to you, anything they offer is a goodwill gesture and they can apply any conditions they like to that.

    How you paid isn't relevant to business vs. consumer, it's the reason you purchased it that matters. If it was purchased for business use then that's that.

    I don't think you have any options left other than paying for a repair or buying a replacement.
    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 15th Sep 18, 12:00 PM
    • 3,704 Posts
    • 3,191 Thanks
    mattyprice4004
    While I understand the frustration given its a known issue, Id do one of the following:

    - back your stuff up, wipe it and sell it on eBay as spares / repairs. Specialist Apple repair shops buy them all the time for spare parts.

    - send it off to an Apple repair specialist, who can repair it for a reasonable amount.

    Id go with the first - gives you an excuse to upgrade
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 15th Sep 18, 12:33 PM
    • 12,773 Posts
    • 10,088 Thanks
    unholyangel
    As Apple weren't the retailer they have no obligation to you, anything they offer is a goodwill gesture and they can apply any conditions they like to that.

    How you paid isn't relevant to business vs. consumer, it's the reason you purchased it that matters. If it was purchased for business use then that's that.

    I don't think you have any options left other than paying for a repair or buying a replacement.
    Originally posted by dj1471
    It actually doesn't matter in this case. Under the SoGA you were not a consumer if you didn't deal or hold yourself out as a business. Although the definition of consumer can change depending on the piece of legislation.

    However the SoGA only applies to contracts of sale. OP has no contract of sale with apple and therefore it doesn't matter what the SoGA defines as a consumer.

    The only way the OP is going to have any rights against apple would be if they promised a (for example) 10 year warranty and it doesn't have any clauses stating the warranty is void if commercial use is involved.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • societys child
    • By societys child 15th Sep 18, 1:37 PM
    • 5,324 Posts
    • 5,922 Thanks
    societys child
    Hold up.
    So this is a 6 year old laptop.
    Just under..
    Just under 6 years old? What are you hoping for?
    You don't have a 6 year warranty, there's no such thing (unless you purchased one).
    In law, you do have 6 years in which to pursue the retailer, but they don't exist any more, and if they did, doubt you'd get very far with a laptop that's almost 6 years old and been used for business purposes.

    • lr1277
    • By lr1277 15th Sep 18, 1:52 PM
    • 558 Posts
    • 317 Thanks
    lr1277
    Last year I had a 6.5 year old iPhone that was heating up.
    I took it to one of those repair places on Tottenham Court Road in London. They didn't have the spares to fix it.
    I then took it to an Apple store. I was told they don't carry spares for any iPhone more than 5 years old (from date of purchase).

    I don't know if an authorised service organisation will carry any hardware parts your computer needs. Best to ask.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 16th Sep 18, 1:51 PM
    • 2,105 Posts
    • 1,253 Thanks
    SuperHan
    A quick look on the Dabs website says it was operated by BT since 2006 (so before your purchase), and they are carrying on all after sales service even though they have discontinued the Dabs brand.

    https://www.dabs.com/account/login

    Provided you can therefore prove there is an inherent fault with the computer you should be able to pursue BT for a remedy.

    (Caveated to say these are consumer rights, so the business/trader problem still exists, but it may be that BT remedy the issue without even asking the question).
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