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  • FIRST POST
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Sep 18, 7:58 AM
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    Nick_C
    Warning to Curve Card users - cash withdrawals might be charged!
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 18, 7:58 AM
    Warning to Curve Card users - cash withdrawals might be charged! 14th Sep 18 at 7:58 AM
    If you use Curve to get cash from your credit card at an ATM, Curve are warning that you may now be charged for a cash withdrawal. This is because Curve are now passing more information about the transactions to the card issuers.

    To quote from their blog:-

    We are changing the way we send MCCs to our customers’ underlying payment card issuer...

    Previously, we sent the same MCC for all transactions, which made sense as most merchants only fit in one category. Curve is obviously not a 'normal' merchant so we found a way to innovate that enables us to send more accurate information on a transaction-by-transaction basis...

    Some transactions may result in charges being levied by certain issuers, dependent on their own terms of service. For example, your card issuer will be able to identify cash withdrawals from your payment card, therefore withdrawing cash from a credit card is not recommended.
    You can read the full blog here:-

    https://blog.imaginecurve.com/introduction-of-new-technology-for-transaction-processing/

    Thanks to Alan, who posted a warning over at www.headforpoints.com
Page 1
    • PRAISETHESUN
    • By PRAISETHESUN 14th Sep 18, 9:32 AM
    • 461 Posts
    • 224 Thanks
    PRAISETHESUN
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 18, 9:32 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 18, 9:32 AM
    Not that I ever made cash withdrawals with Curve, but I wonder how this affect their customer base - it was a pretty popular feature from what I can tell. On the plus side, linked store reward cards should actually work now which is nice
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Sep 18, 9:41 AM
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    Nick_C
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 18, 9:41 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 18, 9:41 AM
    I have been withdrawing £200 every 30 days purely for the 50 Avios that this earns me on my Lloyd's MC. 600 Avios a year was not a huge amount, but it all adds up. It also helped to achieve the spending target for an upgrade voucher, but this is being phased out as well.
    • stevenhp1987
    • By stevenhp1987 14th Sep 18, 11:18 AM
    • 719 Posts
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    stevenhp1987
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 18, 11:18 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 18, 11:18 AM
    Does this mean I can no longer pay my credit card bills with my Tesco Debit card via Curve meaning it is treated as a purchase and therefore earn clubcard points as a result... :/
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Sep 18, 11:23 AM
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    Nick_C
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 18, 11:23 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 18, 11:23 AM
    Try it and see. Paying a credit card bill normally comes up as "Business Services" in Curve. I don't see why this would change. You've nothing to lose by trying it.
    • SnowTiger
    • By SnowTiger 14th Sep 18, 4:55 PM
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    SnowTiger
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 18, 4:55 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 18, 4:55 PM
    Shame. I guess the party is over.

    And I guess this has been forced on Curve by the card networks, although Curve is doing its best to dress it up as a positive thing.

    I'm surprised they haven't given customers notice about this change.

    Hiding it away in their blog under the heading 'Introduction of new technology for transaction processing' suggests Curve know how damaging this will be to it.

    They'll lose over £40,000 of business from me every year.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Sep 18, 5:02 PM
    • 4,453 Posts
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    Nick_C
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 18, 5:02 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 18, 5:02 PM
    You've been withdrawing over £3000 a month in cash? And they've not charged you for it? Wow!

    There are other loopholes. I'm not sure they will be affected by today's change though.
    • SnowTiger
    • By SnowTiger 14th Sep 18, 5:12 PM
    • 3,488 Posts
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    SnowTiger
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 18, 5:12 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 18, 5:12 PM
    You've been withdrawing over £3000 a month in cash? And they've not charged you for it? Wow!
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    I haven't been doing that. I've haven't withdrawn much cash from cashing machines using Curve.

    There are other loopholes. I'm not sure they will be affected by today's change though.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    I have been using 'other loopholes.'

    It's been profitable to, effectively, turn a credit card in to a debt card.

    If Curve passes on a transaction's original MMC that loophole will be tightly closed.
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 14th Sep 18, 6:11 PM
    • 373 Posts
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    Penelopa.Pitstop
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 18, 6:11 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 18, 6:11 PM
    I wonder what happens to HMRC payments, I wouldn't want to be make number of £3750 payments only to learn they were treated as cash withdrawals.

    • jim1999
    • By jim1999 14th Sep 18, 8:26 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    jim1999
    Looks like my Curve card will be going in the shredder.

    If they stopped the ATM withdrawals I could accept that, but I reckon they will start blocking all financial transactions.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 14th Sep 18, 8:48 PM
    • 706 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    I think a lot will depend on whether Curve sends the transactions through with a Transaction Type of 05 (sale) or 07 (cash) rather than any Issuer picking up on the MCC.

    Curve are possibly losing a lot of money allowing ATM withdrawals and then posting the transactions on as 'Sales' because they might be paying the ATM operator a fee for the initial cash withdrawal and then paying the linked Card Issuer an Interchange fee for processing the Sale - such is the way interchange payments work in the card world - or at least they used to.

    They must be trying to plug this hole in their finances but I don't think it will work for them unless they use the Cash Transaction Type of 07. If they do, you will definitely start to get charged a cash advance handling fee for credit card transactions - and possibly even for debit card transactions.

    I guess the only way to find out for sure is to try it out.

    BTW, happy to be corrected if I have described the process incorrectly as my cards knowledge is 14 years out of date.
    • SnowTiger
    • By SnowTiger 14th Sep 18, 10:13 PM
    • 3,488 Posts
    • 2,454 Thanks
    SnowTiger
    I think a lot will depend on whether Curve sends the transactions through with a Transaction Type of 05 (sale) or 07 (cash) rather than any Issuer picking up on the MCC.

    Curve are possibly losing a lot of money allowing ATM withdrawals and then posting the transactions on as 'Sales' because they might be paying the ATM operator a fee for the initial cash withdrawal and then paying the linked Card Issuer an Interchange fee for processing the Sale - such is the way interchange payments work in the card world - or at least they used to.

    They must be trying to plug this hole in their finances but I don't think it will work for them unless they use the Cash Transaction Type of 07. If they do, you will definitely start to get charged a cash advance handling fee for credit card transactions - and possibly even for debit card transactions.

    I guess the only way to find out for sure is to try it out.

    BTW, happy to be corrected if I have described the process incorrectly as my cards knowledge is 14 years out of date.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    I don't think this change has anything to do with cashmachine withdrawals. Curve already limits free withdrawals to £200 a month from credit cards. It would have been simple to set the free limit to £0.

    Curve has faffed around with their Merchant Category Code before, leading to Natwest and Tesco Bank customers being charged unexpected fees by the underlying card. They know what problems changing their MCC causes.

    That's why I suspect this change was forced on them. The fact they've quietly announced it in a vaguely titled blog post reinforces my suspicion.
    • McWedge
    • By McWedge 14th Sep 18, 10:33 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    McWedge
    This is pretty annoying, but, to be honest, expected. Good while it lasted but really too good to be true. The only reason for me keeping Curve now is that it makes my non-contactless and non google pay card contactless.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Sep 18, 10:44 PM
    • 4,453 Posts
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    Nick_C
    It also allows you to charge purchases to a CC at retailers who only accept debit cards.

    And if Curve starts allowing you to link Amex, which seems likely, it will enable you to charge transactions to Amex at places like Lidl and B&Q
    • adindas
    • By adindas 14th Sep 18, 10:55 PM
    • 3,610 Posts
    • 2,239 Thanks
    adindas
    It also allows you to charge purchases to a CC at retailers who only accept debit cards.

    And if Curve starts allowing you to link Amex, which seems likely, it will enable you to charge transactions to Amex at places like Lidl and B&Q
    Originally posted by Nick_C

    I remember someone was saying curve does not allow people to link Amexcard.


    I wonder if someone has anyone actually tried to link Amexcard to curve ?
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Sep 18, 11:34 PM
    • 4,453 Posts
    • 6,414 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Currently, you cannot link Curve to Amex. But there are rumours that this may change.
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