Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 13th Sep 18, 8:07 PM
    • 54Posts
    • 100Thanks
    chunkrock
    Please help!
    • #1
    • 13th Sep 18, 8:07 PM
    Please help! 13th Sep 18 at 8:07 PM
    Hey gang

    Having a nightmare here...

    Randomly did a credit check on myself to see if it was worth applying for credit for something.

    Was mortified to see a CCJ against my name from a few months ago.

    Did some digging and it was for a parking charge from September 2017; all details about the charge and court etc were sent to my old address.
    I do not understand how this happened as all my details including DVLA were changed over to new address months before the parking charge (and I have proof).
    I am writing to the court to ask the judgement be set aside due to complete unfairness of not even knowing about the charge (the charge in question was a shopping precinct car park late in the evening when all shops were closed and the restaurant we were visiting adjacent to the carpark said we didn't have to pay at that time of night) or the court hearing or the judgement.

    Am I in the right? Don't want to pay the set aside fee of £255 to be told I STILL have to pay the £357 and have the black mark against me for 6 years.

    A different parking company did the same thing the week I moved (charge disputed and dismissed) so granted I hadn't changed my DVLA details for that one but they managed to trace me through the electoral register; these new guys who took me to court have made no effort but effort shouldn't have been necessary as my details were changed with the DVLA!

    What a nightmare; I've never so much as missed a phone bill payment
Page 3
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th Sep 18, 8:23 AM
    • 1,176 Posts
    • 2,233 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Ok. What this means is:

    1. You're on #39 posts when this really should've been done before post #1. If you don't help yourself any thoughts expressed here will be incorrect.

    2. It's most definitely your fault that notice was served on the wrong address. The court may have little sympathy since it's a legal requirement to keep it updated and, in fairness, proceedings appear to have been commenced relatively promptly.

    NB/ if you got a ticket last night it's still going to go to your old address. CHANGE IT!!!

    The solution would, I suggest, be to liaise with the ppc to get the judgment set aside (which they'll only agree to if you pay the charges and court fees). It should, however, clean up the credit record - although you'll need to ensure the default is de-registered (others can better comment on how you do that).

    In the set aside order you could add some preamble, something similar to the below:

    UPON being notified that proceedings were not served at the claimant's current residential address

    AND UPON the defendant agreeing to meet the parking charges incurred on [date]

    IT IS ORDERED THAT:

    1. Judgment for the claimant be set aside.

    2. The defendant do pay to the claimant the sum of [£. ] In full and final settlement of all claims brought by the Claimant
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 10:13 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    dang

    so i call the parking people, ask them to agree to set it aside if I pay the £357 in full?

    Do I still send off the set aside form?
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 10:40 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    I've read some stories online from people who have been in exactly the same situation and won... I am so conflicted as to what to do!
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 10:49 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    @couponmad if you come back online (I HAVE to go to sleep, another 12 hour shift tonight ) I have contacted the court and got the details of the claim
    I have also emailed the CEL and asked for all the paperwork to be sent to me.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Sep 18, 10:53 AM
    • 37,266 Posts
    • 21,415 Thanks
    Quentin
    Read up now on set aside by consent.

    Which is advised to you in #41

    If you decide to take that advice the court fee will be £100.

    If successful you will have the CCJ expunged from the record
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 6:58 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    Ok thank you I will call them on Monday and get the credit card out

    Won't make THAT mistake again!!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 18, 7:30 PM
    • 61,456 Posts
    • 74,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would not do set aside by consent.

    I WOULD NOT CALL CEL, and I would not pay them.

    If it's definitely CEL (is it then?) they do not play the game fairly (seen it before, they asked for even more money...) and you are paying a fortune to them, utterly unjustified and IMHO not needed.

    Lots of people have certainly won set asides with the exact same circumstances.

    Not updating the VRN is USUALLY what causes all the set asides on here, all won (except just one, not well argued), week in week out, and your case is no different.

    Forget 'set aside by consent' IMHO, honestly. They took no steps to trace you.

    What's the date of the actual parking event, have you got your copy of the claim?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-09-2018 at 7:33 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 7:32 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    Would you mind if we continued this via PM?

    I feel we're clogging the board and annoying people here haha
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th Sep 18, 7:57 PM
    • 1,176 Posts
    • 2,233 Thanks
    Johnersh
    The o/p must take whatever steps he feels fit, but this is not a case where the parking event took place 5 years before proceedings were commenced. The parking company was (arguably) entitled to assume just a few months on from requesting keeper details that the address was still good.

    Undoubtedly there's a chance to fight and win - after all, papers weren't received. The o/p would also need to demonstrate the case is defensible on the merits. However, if the primary object is merely to clear the credit record, then payment may achieve the goal faster and with less risk.

    This is totally your call and your appetite for risk, so it makes sense to consider your options. I wouldn't disagree strongly if the course advocated by Coupon was followed, but I don't think it's "nailed on" to succeed in this case.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 18, 9:11 PM
    • 61,456 Posts
    • 74,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I don't do pm's because of no time and the fact I was stalked/harassed by someone.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 9:12 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    I don't do pm's because of no time and the fact I was stalked/harassed by someone.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    That is fair enough and I am sorry to hear that.

    I am incredibly conflicted. Do I continue as you suggested on page 1? Even though it looks like legally its my fault as I didnt change the VC5?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 18, 9:24 PM
    • 61,456 Posts
    • 74,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Your decision.

    I've only seen one person try to do a set aside 'by consent' with CEL and they didn't play the game properly (like ParkingEye do, for example). I seem to recall they wanted even more money, and dragged their feet and had no interest in confirming the CCJ had been paid/consenting to a set aside, once the money reached their account they stopped communicating.

    Why would they bother once they got the money - and they didn't, AFAIK.

    I think the person still had the CCJ and was £300+ out of pocket, and it was merely marked 'satisfied' which is not what you want at all (still wrecks your credit rating).

    Even of they play the game properly with you and don't take your money and run, a set aside with consent will cost you £100 to the court, plus the STUPID amount of money that CEL have inflated the invented charge to.

    Pretty much every case we see here for a set aside, are cases where people omitted to change their V5, and every case (except one, where I recall the OP seemed very ill-prepared) was allowed to be set aside.

    People have admitted their minor oversight but written a decent WS and draft order to go with their N244, and used Sir Oliver Heald's words about CCJs by stealth:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/12/government-announce-ccj-review-due-to.html

    Clearly the courts service does not condone a parking firm issuing claims to people who have never replied and might not be at the address the DVLA had.

    So people here suggest to their local courts, that despite the V5 address oversight (unknown to the victim, but now put right with the DVLA) there was no intention to hide from this claimant, so in the interests of justice the case should be heard, particularly given the fact that CEL cannot even hold registered keepers liable for the actions of an unknown driver, so this case should be heard because the CCJ victim may not even be the person liable, has no idea about any contract or charge.

    Which is your local court? Maybe we can tell you if they are good or bad?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-09-2018 at 9:28 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 9:33 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    Your decision.

    I've only seen one person try to do a set aside 'by consent' with CEL and they didn't play the game properly (like ParkingEye do, for example). I seem to recall they wanted even more money, and dragged their feet and had no interest in confirming the CCJ had been paid/consenting to a set aside, once the money reached their account they stopped communicating.

    Why would they bother once they got the money - and they didn't, AFAIK.

    I think the person still had the CCJ and was £300+ out of pocket, and it was merely marked 'satisfied' which is not what you want at all (still wrecks your credit rating).

    Even of they play the game properly with you and don't take your money and run, a set aside with consent will cost you £100 to the court, plus the STUPID amount of money that CEL have inflated the invented charge to.

    Pretty much every case we see here for a set aside, are cases where people omitted to change their V5, and every case (except one, where I recall the OP seemed very ill-prepared) was allowed to be set aside.

    People have admitted their minor oversight but written a decent WS and draft order to go with their N244, and used Sir Oliver Heald's words about CCJs by stealth:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/12/government-announce-ccj-review-due-to.html

    Clearly the courts service does not condone a parking firm issuing claims to people who have never replied and might not be at the address the DVLA had.

    So people here suggest to their local courts, that despite the V5 address oversight (unknown to the victim, but now put right with the DVLA) there was no intention to hide from this claimant, so in the interests of justice the case should be heard, particularly given the fact that CEL cannot even hold registered keepers liable for the actions of an unknown driver, so this case should be heard because the CCJ victim may not even be the person liable, has no idea about any contract or charge.

    Which is your local court? Maybe we can tell you if they are good or bad?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I am in Salford so am guessing Manchester?

    I am going to appeal; I'll kick myself forever if I don't at least try.
    Should I write in plain English language instead of legal jargon or try do it like the thing I posted earlier?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 18, 9:45 PM
    • 61,456 Posts
    • 74,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Good news! Manchester court Judges are almost invariably, and consistently anti-PPC.

    If DJ Iyer looks at it, you'd even get your £255 back, IMHO...if you word the WS and draft order well, and go to the set aside hearing being honest about the minor oversight of the V5 that took you by complete surprise, but then moving on to why the case should be set aside in the interests of justice.

    As Johnersh says, it is not nailed on 100% to be set aside (to be fair, any set asides we see are not guaranteed) but we do have a phenomenal success rate and your court is a very good one.

    If you are happy to try, read recent CEL set aside threads over the weekend and then show us your draft WS and Order, with 6 points in it.

    Did you get the copy of the claim form so you know what the parking event was, where & when?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 9:51 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    Good news! Manchester court Judges are almost invariably, and consistently anti-PPC.

    If DJ Iyer looks at it, you'd even get your £255 back, IMHO...if you word the WS and draft order well, and go to the set aside hearing being honest about the minor oversight of the V5 that took you by complete surprise, but then moving on to why the case should be set aside in the interests of justice.

    As Johnersh says, it is not nailed on 100% to be set aside (to be fair, any set asides we see are not guaranteed) but we do have a phenomenal success rate and your court is a very good one.

    If you are happy to try, read recent CEL set aside threads over the weekend and then show us your draft WS and Order, with 6 points in it.

    Did you get the copy of the claim form so you know what the parking event was, where & when?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    The court refused to send me any official documentation (the woman on the phone was very rude and sounded like she didn't give a !!!!) but I did convince her to email me SOME details which thankfully included location and dates/times etc.

    I will write a statement, do some research, redraft my statement and post it here for you to peruse. Thank you so so much again
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 10:17 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    ok so... first draft

    I am XXXX and I am the Defendant in this matter. This my supporting Statement in support of my application dated 14 September 2018 to:
    1. Set aside the Default Judgement dated 22nd June 2017 as it was not properly served at my current address and order for the Claimant to pay the Defendant £255 as reimbursement for the set aside fee;

    1. Default Judgement

    1.1. I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant on 22nd June 2018. I am aware that the Claimant is Civil Enforcement Limited and that the claim is in respect of an unpaid Parking Charge Notice from the 14 September 2017 at “FARNWORTH RETAIL”.

    1.2. The claim form was not served at my current address and I thus was not aware of the Default Judgement until 13 September 2018 when I undertook a routine credit check. I understand that this Claim was served at XXXX. However, I moved to a new address XXXX on the XX February 2017. In support of this I can provide a copy of a solicitor’s completion statement showing the date of completion and confirmation from Salford Council showing my updated details for the purposes of paying Council tax. Both are attached at Exhibit X. I admit that as a new driver I was unaware that changing my address details with the DVLA was not enough and I also had to change my details on the V5C logbook, something I have now rectified.

    1.3. I believe the Claimant has behaved unreasonably in pursuing a claim against me without ensuring they held the Defendant’s correct contact details at the time of the claim. They have used information that was at the time eight months out of date.

    1.4. According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The industry’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results is an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country. This is a topical issue: I note that the Justice Minister The Rt Hon Sir Oliver Heald QC MP announced on the 23rd December 2016 a consultation and information campaign to help protect consumers from debt claims. The consultation will look at ways to; “better protect consumers who are sent mail to inaccurate addresses and verify addresses again before a claim is sent.” The Minister added that “In the digital age, we must ensure companies pursuing unpaid debts make every reasonable effort to contact individuals, rather than simply relying on a letter to an old address.”

    1.5. On the basis provided above I would suggest that the Claimant did not fulfil their duty to use the Defendant’s current address when bringing the claim.

    1.6. Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim. I thus believe that the Default Judgement against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside and I ask the Court to kindly consider the reimbursement of the fee of £255 from the claimant should this request be successful.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 18, 10:27 PM
    • 61,456 Posts
    • 74,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    1.1. I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant on 22nd June 2018. I am now aware, upon finding out about the unknown CCJ and from contacting the CCBC, that the Claimant is Civil Enforcement Limited and that the claim is in respect of unexplained conduct, by an unidentified driver of the vehicle, that the Claimant believes led to an alleged Parking Charge Notice from the 14 September 2017 at 'FARNWORTH RETAIL'. I know nothing about this incident; I have seen no photographs, and no driver of my car has reported receiving a PCN at any point, so this is not a charge that I or a driver has ignored, nor have I had any chance to dispute it. If I had known about this matter, I would have asked for evidence, and I am also aware that this Claimant cannot find a registered keeper liable, as they do not use the POFA/Schedule 4 'right to keeper liability' so there would have been grounds to dispute it, had I known.
    I admit that, being new to car ownership and DVLA rules, as a new driver I was unaware that changing my driving licence address details with the DVLA was not enough and I also had to change my details on the V5C logbook, something I have now rectified. There was no attempt to hide from this Claimant, and I was there to be found at my current address, with a basic trace.
    Maybe the above?

    Also, you need to draw up the Draft Order you see on other set aside threads.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-09-2018 at 10:30 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 14th Sep 18, 10:31 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 9,377 Thanks
    KeithP
    I would add to 1.3 something along the lines of:
    At no time since issuing the Parking Charge Notice did the Claimant ever receive any response to any communications served at my previous address. This surely should have cast doubt on the address they were using.
    Last edited by KeithP; 14-09-2018 at 11:57 PM.
    .
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 10:43 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    Maybe the above?

    Also, you need to draw up the Draft Order you see on other set aside threads.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Forgive me, the draft order is the part where I ask the charge to be dropped?
    • chunkrock
    • By chunkrock 14th Sep 18, 10:47 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    chunkrock
    2.1. I further believe that the original Claim by the Claimant has no merit and should thus be dismissed. I understand that the Claimant is a Parking Company which seeks to claim for “Parking Charge Notices” which the Claimant believes are due as a result of an alleged breach of contract for parking by a motorist.

    2.2. If the Claimant has obtained details of the vehicle for which the Defendant is the Registered Keeper, and used those details to make a claim for a “Parking Charge Notice’’, I thus dispute the claim in its entirety as I do not know the wording of the contract nor do I know the means by which the contract was alleged to come into force.

    2.3. If the Claimant can evidence that the alleged incident relates to a vehicle for which the Defendant is the Registered Keeper, any Notice to Keeper served by the Claimant must comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Otherwise, the Claimant is required to prove the driver of the vehicle they claim was involved in the alleged incident. I submit that the Claimant cannot provide such evidence and further submit that the Claimant does not include ‘Protection of Freedoms Act 2012’ wording on the Parking Charge Notices they issue and therefore cannot hold the Defendant automatically liable for the alleged incident merely for being the Registered Keeper of a vehicle.

    2.4. A requirement of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is that this any Notice to Keeper served by the Claimant must be served within 14 days of the date of the alleged incident. Since I have not received any documentation from the Claimant prior to finding out about the Default Judgement, I submit the Claimant will not have complied with the requirements of the Act and thus cannot claim this charge against me as the Registered Keeper in any case.

    2.5. I further submit that the Claimant’s claim is without merit due to substantial issues in law. This is for the following main reasons:

    2.5.1. Lack of Standing by Claimant: The Claimant is unlikely to be the landowner of the car park in question, and will have no proprietary interest in it. This means that the Claimant, as a matter of law, will have no locus standi to litigate in their own name. Any consideration will have been provided by the landholder, and only they would have been able sue for any damages or trespass.

    2.5.2. No Loss Suffered by Claimant: Their claim is presumably based on damages for alleged breach of contract. It is a fundamental principle of English Law that a party who suffers damages through breach of contract can only seek through court action to be put back in the same position as they would have been if the breach had not occurred. In order to do so, they must demonstrate their actual, or genuine, pre-estimate of loss. I submit that no loss has been suffered by the Claimant as a result of any alleged breaches of contract on the part of any motorist of the vehicle of which I am the Registered Keeper. I further submit that any loss to the landholder (which would be the only party able to claim such losses) would be at most a few pounds.

    2.5.3. No contract with the claimant: Any contract must have offer, acceptance and consideration both ways. There would not have been consideration from the Claimant to the motorist; the fee for parking benefits the landowners, not the Claimant. Therefore, there is no consideration from the motorist to Civil Enforcement Ltd.

    2.6. On this basis I believe that the Claimant has not provided any reasonable cause of action and thus the claim should be dismissed in its entirety.

    2.7. In order to make informed decisions and statements in my defence as keeper of the a vehicle, I will require copies of all paperwork and pictures of all signs from the Claimant.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,621Posts Today

8,089Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @Dora_Haf: @MartinSLewis So many people on here saying they're great until you get your PROPER job. What if Your proper job Is ON zero?

  • RT @hslt88: @MartinSLewis I?m a trustee for a youth charity. We only have a limited pool of funds for flexible youth workers for holiday sc?

  • RT @Dan_i_elle_88: @MartinSLewis Loved working zero hour agency care work. Never out of work and I loved having the flexibility! Only left?

  • Follow Martin