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  • FIRST POST
    • Alloneword
    • By Alloneword 12th Sep 18, 1:20 AM
    • 323Posts
    • 353Thanks
    Alloneword
    Everyone seems to want to shove you onto a smart meter
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 18, 1:20 AM
    Everyone seems to want to shove you onto a smart meter 12th Sep 18 at 1:20 AM
    I'm with ExtraEnergy and they say everyone with them will be forced onto a smart meter by 2020 and all the supplies i have checked seem to want to shove you on this as well, it seems like they are leaving us with no choice, any suggested suppliers who won't shove me onto a smart meter
Page 2
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 14th Sep 18, 11:03 PM
    • 1,979 Posts
    • 2,735 Thanks
    badmemory
    I feel obliged to ask - how much worse was the reception on her new digital TV? My change from a normal aerial to a 12ft mast still didn't get back a guaranteed sight of channels 3,4 & 5 that I'd had before. I was told that when everywhere went digital it would be better - it wasn't. Years later I still lose them for days at a time. So maybe you can see why I would doubt "their" technical abilities.
    • jelv
    • By jelv 15th Sep 18, 12:24 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    jelv
    Each time I've been offered a smart meter I've asked if it will be SMETS 2. Until I know that I would be able to switch without needing a new meter I'll carry on saying no thanks!
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 15th Sep 18, 8:54 AM
    • 3,864 Posts
    • 2,517 Thanks
    Houbara
    Each time I've been offered a smart meter I've asked if it will be SMETS 2. Until I know that I would be able to switch without needing a new meter I'll carry on saying no thanks!
    Originally posted by jelv
    It will most likely be a SMETS2 compatible smart meter that your supplier is offering to fit. Nearly all the small suppliers are using the Secure Liberty 100 gas and electric meters. These meters are listed in the makes/models which will be adopted into the DCC when it go s live.
    No need to say "no thanks ".
    BG s Landis Gyr Gas G370, G470 and Electric E470 are also in the list
    https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html
    The DCC is reported to be restoring SMETS2 function to these meters between Nov 2018 and June 2019
    Last edited by Houbara; 15-09-2018 at 8:58 AM.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 15th Sep 18, 8:59 AM
    • 5,103 Posts
    • 2,246 Thanks
    brewerdave
    It will most likely be a SMETS2 compatible smart meter that your supplier is offering to fit. Nearly all the small suppliers are using the Secure Liberty 100 gas and electric meters. These meters are listed in the makes/models which will be adopted into the DCC when it go s live.
    No need to say "no thanks ".
    BG s Landis Gyr Gas G370, G470 and Electric E470 are also in the list
    Originally posted by Houbara

    You keep putting this "advice" up - currently there is absolutely no evidence that SMETS1 meters from ANY manufacturer will be "adopted" into the DCC. It's pure Government propaganda.
    The sensible viewpoint is to wait for SMETS2 (or 3 or 4....)
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 15th Sep 18, 9:20 AM
    • 3,864 Posts
    • 2,517 Thanks
    Houbara
    You keep putting this "advice" up - currently there is absolutely no evidence that SMETS1 meters from ANY manufacturer will be "adopted" into the DCC. It's pure Government propaganda.
    The sensible viewpoint is to wait for SMETS2 (or 3 or 4....)
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    That is just your idea that its "government propaganda " You will not be able to prove that until the period of Nov 2018 and June 2019 has passed
    . But as the DCC is run by the company Capita, possibly I m overstating the time frame they have published and I will be proved wrong.
    Let`s wait until then and see , meantime you will have to put up with me engaging in "government propaganda "
    The well worn old excuse for refusing a smart meter may well have to find another one to turn to. I m sure they will quickly find one.
    Everyone who switches to the cheapest suppliers, like me , will find that they will want to fit the bargain basement Secure Liberty 100 meters, which are smart then become dumb on a switch, then become smart again once the DCC becomes live.
    With my revenue protection hat on, the amusing thought has occurred to me that there will be many people (none on here of course ) using these SMETS2 compatible meters and engaging in energy theft who will not be aware that their previously thought of as "dumb " meters have magically and suddenly regained smart capability .... and the suppliers will be able to see what is happening !!.
    Last edited by Houbara; 15-09-2018 at 12:28 PM.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 15th Sep 18, 10:08 AM
    • 6,142 Posts
    • 3,933 Thanks
    Hengus
    If SMETS1 adoption is Government propaganda then The Data Communications Company seems to be putting a lot of time; technical effort and, no doubt, our money into giving life to the fact that adoption is indeed possible. Whether the likely adoption timeline makes this approach cost effective only time will tell. Hopefully, the NAO will throw some light on this in their forthcoming report on smart meter costs.

    https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/future-service-development/enrolment-and-adoption/
    Last edited by Hengus; 15-09-2018 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Typo
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 15th Sep 18, 11:49 AM
    • 4,651 Posts
    • 6,015 Thanks
    jack_pott
    I'm with ExtraEnergy and they say everyone with them will be forced onto a smart meter by 2020 and all the supplies i have checked seem to want to shove you on this as well, it seems like they are leaving us with no choice, any suggested suppliers who won't shove me onto a smart meter
    Originally posted by Alloneword
    Green Network Energy: "For the reasons set out on our website we will only start installing smart meters when we consider the right technology is available in the best interests of our customers."
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • Spidernick
    • By Spidernick 15th Sep 18, 12:02 PM
    • 2,899 Posts
    • 5,677 Thanks
    Spidernick
    Well I was with Affect Energy and now Outfox the Market and have never been contacted to have a Smart meter installed, so what am I doing wrong/right?

    On Radio 4's Money Box the other day, they suggested that the mark one versions are still being installed and which are effectively obsolete (or will be shortly), so while I have no objection to them in principle I won't be rushing to get one at the moment.
    'I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my father. Not screaming and terrified like his passengers.' (Bob Monkhouse).

    Sky? Believe in better.

    Note: win, draw or lose (not 'loose' - opposite of tight!)
    • A. Badger
    • By A. Badger 15th Sep 18, 2:47 PM
    • 5,233 Posts
    • 6,624 Thanks
    A. Badger
    I'm also with Affect energy and the idea of a 'smart meter' (sic) has never been raised.

    Just as well as I might have some interesting ideas where they could stick it.
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 15th Sep 18, 3:14 PM
    • 3,864 Posts
    • 2,517 Thanks
    Houbara
    Green Network Energy: "For the reasons set out on our website we will only start installing smart meters when we consider the right technology is available in the best interests of our customers."
    Originally posted by jack_pott
    https://greennetworkenergy.co.uk/help-centre/meters-and-meter-reading/smart-meter-information/
    This may be outdated information.according to their website "they anticipate our roll out of SMETS2 smart meters to start mid 2018 "
    Had a quote from them whilst I was perusing the website on my yearly usage..Pretty poor at over 125 a year more on my 2200kwh electric and 10,000 gas kwhs than a few of the other front runners
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 15th Sep 18, 3:21 PM
    • 6,142 Posts
    • 3,933 Thanks
    Hengus
    https://greennetworkenergy.co.uk/help-centre/meters-and-meter-reading/smart-meter-information/
    This may be outdated information.according to their website "they anticipate our roll out of SMETS2 smart meters to start mid 2018 "
    Had a quote from them whilst I was perusing the website on my yearly usage..Pretty poor at over 125 a year more on my 2200kwh electric and 10,000 gas kwhs than a few of the other front runners
    Originally posted by Houbara
    Outdated is the right word. Various industry experts are suggesting that the SMETS1 drop dead date will be moved to the right again as there are ongoing SMETS2 software issues.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 15th Sep 18, 4:17 PM
    • 4,651 Posts
    • 6,015 Thanks
    jack_pott
    https://greennetworkenergy.co.uk/help-centre/meters-and-meter-reading/smart-meter-information/
    This may be outdated information.according to their website "they anticipate our roll out of SMETS2 smart meters to start mid 2018 "
    Had a quote from them whilst I was perusing the website on my yearly usage..Pretty poor at over 125 a year more on my 2200kwh electric and 10,000 gas kwhs than a few of the other front runners
    Originally posted by Houbara
    Yes, I took it to mean 'we will only start installing smart meters when SMETS2 becomes available', but I've not been following when that's expected to be. Sensible policy if you ask me, instead of wasting money installing obsolescent devices.

    My tariff is 13p & 2.91p/kWh, with 59.10 & 57.26 S/C.
    Last edited by jack_pott; 15-09-2018 at 4:20 PM.
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • The Green Hornet
    • By The Green Hornet 15th Sep 18, 7:35 PM
    • 396 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    The Green Hornet
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/15/smart-meter-revolution-at-risk-short-circuited
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 15th Sep 18, 7:49 PM
    • 2,386 Posts
    • 3,230 Thanks
    Robisere
    I read my meters regularly, transmit readings to EDF and receive updated information within 24/48 hours. The meters were newly fitted in 2015 and are both dumb. As they are so new, I cannot be threatened with the 'old, outdated meter' excuse. I don't want a Smart meter, I cannot be compelled to have one and I manage my energy use myself. What's the problem?
    I think this job really needs
    a much bigger hammer.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 15th Sep 18, 8:28 PM
    • 6,142 Posts
    • 3,933 Thanks
    Hengus
    I read my meters regularly, transmit readings to EDF and receive updated information within 24/48 hours. The meters were newly fitted in 2015 and are both dumb. As they are so new, I cannot be threatened with the 'old, outdated meter' excuse. I don't want a Smart meter, I cannot be compelled to have one and I manage my energy use myself. What's the problem?
    Originally posted by Robisere
    The roll out of smart meters is about the development of a smart grid. This is something that most countries are developing. The information that generators need from your meter is 30 minute usage information which I doubt whether the most ardent dumb meter homeowner will be willing to provide. That said, we, being British, have got ourselves into a smart meter roll out situation that is both un-necessarily complex; technically risky; extremely expensive and running late.

    The benefits associated with a Smart Grid include:

    More efficient transmission of electricity

    Detection of soon to fail components: eg; high/low voltage situations

    Quicker restoration of electricity after power disturbances with real time digital troubleshooting (at the moment, engineers have to deploy to the location of the outage to identify the nature of a fault)

    Reduced operational and management costs for utilities will ultimately lead to lower than might be power costs for consumers.

    Reducing peak demand will also help lower electricity rates; eg; Time of Use tariffs to better match demand with supply (At the moment, a large chunk of our electricity bill is paying for 'just in case' electricity diesel generation that might never be used.)

    Increased integration into the Grid of large-scale renewable energy systems.

    Better integration of customer-owned power generation systems, including renewable energy systems

    Improved Grid security

    A smart grid is deemed to be vital for all countries moving to an all electric vehicle society.

    Personally, I think that this matters.
    Last edited by Hengus; 15-09-2018 at 8:32 PM.
    • chris73
    • By chris73 15th Sep 18, 10:12 PM
    • 355 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    chris73
    My reasons for not having a Smart Meter are two fold, firstly down to the risk that we may see a 'tiered' electricity charge introduced, where we are penalised with a higher rate tariff during periods of high demand, such as in the Evenings, or during sudden colder periods in the Winter months, when the grid is stretched or more generation has to be brought online or when there is no wind for the wind turbines!.

    I believe such a system is already implemented in some other Countries, where they pay more for the Electricity used during high demand periods such as 5PM than say, 10AM when demand is lower.

    This type of charging works a bit like Economy 7 does at the moment with peak / off-peak periods, but more of them, spread out during different periods of the day, so between 7AM and 3PM and 9PM - 11PM you might be charged 12p per kw/h but between 3pm and 9pm that may increase to 17p per kw/h. It may not even be that structured, different tiers could be remotely kicked in at will by the Grid or Energy Companies in relation to the real time demand.

    Since I work full time, the majority of my energy is used when i'm at home during the Evenings, and so why should I be effectively penalised with higher energy costs for working for a living, and being at work when energy is cheaper?. I'm also not keen on leaving washing machines / tumble dryers timed for use during the night or when the house is unoccupied in order to take advantage of any planned cheaper periods, due to the very real and media documented fire risk.

    Some may say, that tiered tariffs will never happen but nobody on this forum or even the energy companies themselves will give you a written guarantee of this, but one thing is certain, if they are introduced the one thing which will be needed to do it will be meters which can read multiple tariffs and smart meters can do this, as we have a 'seasonal' meter at work which log can units of Electricity used, during Winter / Summer months and Weekday / Weekend periods and charge different rates accordingly!.

    There is no way that multiple tariffs can be logged with a single tariff digital credit meter, and no chance whatsoever with the older spinning wheel / dial type meters, so if there is even a 5% chance of multiple tiered tariffs being introduced at some point in the future then I would prefer to reduce that 5% risk down further to 0% by keeping an old school dumb meter, and take my chances on any legacy tariff.

    They have also got to somehow claw back the 27 Billion loss of duty and VAT revenue as more and more people stop buying petrol and diesel in favour of using Electric Cars, I suspect that one way that this will be done is by increasing the VAT levied on Energy from the current 5% on domestic use to the full 20% on the Energy used by the Car Charging system and log two different readings - domestic and car use with different rates of VAT on each. There is no chance that Electric Car owners will still be charging their cars for 12p / 13p per KW/H as they do currently when this shortfall has to be addressed, as its being kept cheap in order to entice people to changeover - just like they did with diesel cars back in the day, and I can see a point eventually where those with Electric Cars will look back fondly on their ICE cars of yesterday and reminisce about how much cheaper they were to run.

    The second reason for not wanting a smart meter is because its what the Glubberment want us to do. If you believe that the Politicians really do get up in the morning and only act in the best interests of 66 million complete strangers then you are deluded! because they aren't Saints or your Mum!, and so if something is rolled out and sold to you as being in our best interests then suspect the complete opposite!.

    We have also not had the cost of rolling out these Smart Meters added to our bills yet, which no doubt will be another treat in store in the coming year or so.
    Last edited by chris73; 15-09-2018 at 10:35 PM.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 15th Sep 18, 10:32 PM
    • 3,864 Posts
    • 2,517 Thanks
    Houbara
    Tired pricing has been operating in the UK for decades..Nothing new at all in that
    .Eco 7, Eco 10, British Gas and their free 8 hour weekend tariff, or the highly restrictive white meter arrangements in Scotland where a very few suppliers hold their customers in their grip unable to access the whole market due to legacy meters and wiring..
    All are tiered pricing.
    I suspect if Time Of Use does appear in the UK that MSE devotees will make the best use of it and come out winning
    • takman
    • By takman 15th Sep 18, 10:47 PM
    • 3,651 Posts
    • 3,280 Thanks
    takman
    My reasons for not having a Smart Meter are two fold, firstly down to the risk that we may see a 'tiered' electricity charge introduced, where we are penalised with a higher rate tariff during periods of high demand, such as in the Evenings, or during sudden colder periods in the Winter months, when the grid is stretched or more generation has to be brought online or when there is no wind for the wind turbines!.

    I believe such a system is already implemented in some other Countries, where they pay more for the Electricity used during high demand periods such as 5PM than say, 10AM when demand is lower.

    This type of charging works a bit like Economy 7 does at the moment with peak / off-peak periods, but more of them, spread out during different periods of the day, so between 7AM and 3PM and 9PM - 11PM you might be charged 12p per kw/h but between 3pm and 9pm that may increase to 17p per kw/h. It may not even be that structured, different tiers could be remotely kicked in at will by the Grid or Energy Companies in relation to the real time demand.

    Since I work full time, the majority of my energy is used when i'm at home during the Evenings, and so why should I be effectively penalised with higher energy costs for working for a living, and being at work when energy is cheaper?. I'm also not keen on leaving washing machines / tumble dryers timed for use during the night or when the house is unoccupied in order to take advantage of any planned cheaper periods, due to the very real and media documented fire risk.

    Some may say, that tiered tariffs will never happen but nobody on this forum or even the energy companies themselves will give you a written guarantee of this, but one thing is certain, if they are introduced the one thing which will be needed to do it will be meters which can read multiple tariffs and smart meters can do this, as we have a 'seasonal' meter at work which log can units of Electricity used, during Winter / Summer months and Weekday / Weekend periods and charge different rates accordingly!.

    There is no way that multiple tariffs can be logged with a single tariff digital credit meter, and no chance whatsoever with the older spinning wheel / dial type meters, so if there is even a 5% chance of multiple tiered tariffs being introduced at some point in the future then I would prefer to reduce that 5% risk down further to 0% by keeping an old school dumb meter, and take my chances on any legacy tariff.
    Originally posted by chris73
    So let's say they introduce these tariffs with different rates throughout the day when 95% of the population have smart meters.
    You really think by keeping your non-smart meter you will somehow be able to be on a tariff that works out cheaper

    Any legacy tariff that they keep will obviously be equivalent to a standard variable tariff today and you will certainly be worse off by keeping a non-smart meter.

    They have also got to somehow claw back the 27 Billion loss of duty and VAT revenue as more and more people stop buying petrol and diesel in favour of using Electric Cars, I suspect that one way that this will be done is by increasing the VAT levied on Energy from the current 5% on domestic use to the full 20% on the Energy used by the Car Charging system and log two different readings - domestic and car use with different rates of VAT on each. There is no chance that Electric Car owners will still be charging their cars for 12p / 13p per KW/H as they do currently when this shortfall has to be addressed, as its being kept cheap in order to entice people to changeover - just like they did with diesel cars back in the day, and I can see a point eventually where those with Electric Cars will look back fondly on their ICE cars of yesterday and reminisce about how much cheaper they were to run.

    The second reason for not wanting a smart meter is because its what the Glubberment want us to do. If you believe that the Politicians really do get up in the morning and only act in the best interests of 66 million complete strangers then you are deluded! because they aren't Saints or your Mum!, and so if something is rolled out and sold to you as being in our best interests then suspect the complete opposite!.

    We have also not had the cost of rolling out these Smart Meters added to our bills yet, which no doubt will be another treat in store in the coming year or so.
    Originally posted by chris73
    So your saying if the government want the population to do something then that means it's automatically a bad thing
    • A. Badger
    • By A. Badger 16th Sep 18, 6:55 AM
    • 5,233 Posts
    • 6,624 Thanks
    A. Badger



    So your saying if the government want the population to do something then that means it's automatically a bad thing
    Originally posted by takman
    Experience shows that is very often the case. Particularly so when clever people with vested interests manage to pull the wool over the eyes of venal and/or dim politicians and civil servants.
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 16th Sep 18, 8:17 AM
    • 1,158 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    Uxb
    It also opens up the possibility of maximum demand pricing which I believe some other countries also use.

    This is where to prevent some people using a huge amount of electric at periods of high demand regardless of the price so they are limited to a certain amount of maximum KW demand at any one point. Currently in those countries where it operate you buy an electric supply with the KW power taken limited in the meter at a different price depending on that limit.
    With smart meters you could do all this automatically.

    Indeed large users in the UK already have a similar tariff called a max MVA demand where if they go over the agreed limit even for only a short time at any point in the day then that entire days worth of electric usage is charged at a much higher rate than the normal rate.
    The objective is to reduce peak demand points on the electric network since the public seem unwilling to actually pay for new power stations to provide for their ever increasing consumption.
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