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  • FIRST POST
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 12th Sep 18, 12:47 AM
    • 44Posts
    • 7Thanks
    RedPen50
    Parking in Garage/McDonalds
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 18, 12:47 AM
    Parking in Garage/McDonalds 12th Sep 18 at 12:47 AM
    Hi there, I have been looking at all the help on this site and its giving me hope for my case.

    I wasn't in a car park, but a Macdonald's/garage at the bottom of Salterhebble Hill in Halifax. The way the traffic works is a little strange so I will try to describe it to you - you go into the shared entrance of either McDonald's or the garage. When you want to leave, from McDonalds, you have to drive around the back of the garage and drive up alongside the fence towards the exit - there is only this one from the garage. There are no parking bays, no payment meters, although now I realise that there are double yellow lines by the fence, which I saw for the first time on the notice in the pictures.

    In Feb 2018 I had pulled into the McDonald's restaurant with my cousin (we had just had a hospital appt), and got some food and went around the back of the garage and pulled up side onto the fence to eat. For years, drivers had done this as there is limited parking at McDonald's, but as long as you kept to the left by the fence and didn't stay too long, nothing was said. There is still ample room for two more lines of traffic leaving the garage and so you are not blocking the exit. From August last year there have been extensive roadworks from the Calderdale Royal Hospital (top of Salterhebble Hill) with the whole area under severe lane restrictions. For the majority of the time I bypassed Salterhebble Hill, but, as I said, this was the first time I had gone to McDonalds, or driven around the garage and parked by the fence in nearly a year - another car even parked behind me. Some time later I was shocked to receive a parking charge letter through the post from the Hx Car Park Management Ltd, with video pictures of my vehicle 'parked' and it took me a few minutes to figure out that it was at the garage. I then did something which I now know I shouldn't have done. I called up the company and spoke to an operator, explaining that there had never been parking restrictions before - it was a garage, no bays or parking meters etc - and the op just kept telling me that the signs were there and I should have seen them. I also mentioned I was there for a few minutes whilst I ate my burger and then left. The op told me that they give 5 minutes grace to read the signs. I went back to the garage and found that there were indeed signs, fixed to the fence, not much bigger than A4 size. Nothing else, no warning signs at the entrance to the garage or McDonalds, only on the fence, where other advertising banners were shown. I realised that, as the fence was on the left, and the driver is sitting in the car, even if I had turned and seen the sign, the only text I could see was the 'No Stopping' text, everything else was too small. I also had a passenger sitting on the left, part blocking the sign. I have noted on one of the threads on here, that a judge on a case agreed that if a driver has to get out of the car to read the sign, this was contrary and enticing the driver to breach the conditions.


    I wasn't sure whether to respond to the notice and sure enough received letters from Gladstones, 'inviting' me to pay off the fine. Using a template from a thread on here, I responded, pointing out all the issues above, and some others which I can't remember just now as I'm getting tired due to the late hour, and I was then told to complete a protocol, which I did. I received an email from Gladstones, just really stating everything that they had done previously.



    In other words, she was just re-iterating what had been said previously. When I asked, via the protocol, for a copy of their contract, they replied that the sign was their contract. When I went onto their website, I struggled to find a copy of their contract.

    A short while later I was passing the garage and noticed that all of the signs had been taken down from the fence. I was puzzled and then wondered if the company was changing the signs after receiving my response. It was around a week before I saw someone putting them back on the fence again. I did take before and after pictures, but to me they looked the same, so not sure what that was about.

    I have now received a County Court Business Centre Claim Form. I have again used a thread on here to fill out the online AOS section and that's where I'm at.

    I know this is a long winded first thread, but its the first time I've done anything like this and quite frankly getting very distressed over it all. I have taken some hope from the successes on here and hope someone can help. Do I have a case? Should I have just paid to begin with?


    Many thanks for your advice/input.

Page 4
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 16th Oct 18, 8:53 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    Ok, so I sent a quick email to the CCBC today enquiring about the N180 form and half an hour later they emailed the form through. I have completed it and emailed it back to the court and to Gladstones - I have posted copies too. Feeling a bit better about this now.


    One question - in the last email from Gladstones they were talking about dealing with this case via papers only. There was nothing on the form about this - is this something I will deal with later? Or do I need to directly email Gladstones and tell them no to this?
    Thanks.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Oct 18, 9:19 PM
    • 10,682 Posts
    • 11,064 Thanks
    KeithP
    One question - in the last email from Gladstones they were talking about dealing with this case via papers only. There was nothing on the form about this - is this something I will deal with later? Or do I need to directly email Gladstones and tell them no to this?
    Thanks.
    Originally posted by RedPen50
    Didn't Bargepole's walkthrough linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread specifically answer that question?
    .
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 16th Oct 18, 10:19 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    I found the paragraph on second read through - thanks. I knew I had seen it somewhere. There wasn't much room to put the whole paragraph in the D1 box - I have forwarded the paragraph via email to both CCBC and Gladstones, so hopefully that should suffice.
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 1st Nov 18, 10:37 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    Right, so now got a letter saying that the case has been sent to Bradford Crown Court. Just waiting for notice of allocation ... bring it on!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Nov 18, 11:13 AM
    • 20,255 Posts
    • 31,952 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Right, so now got a letter saying that the case has been sent to Bradford Crown Court. Just waiting for notice of allocation ... bring it on!
    Originally posted by RedPen50
    Is that your local court (or one convenient to you)?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Nov 18, 12:21 PM
    • 10,682 Posts
    • 11,064 Thanks
    KeithP
    Right, so now got a letter saying that the case has been sent to Bradford Crown Court. Just waiting for notice of allocation ... bring it on!
    Originally posted by RedPen50
    Did the letter really say that?

    I would've expected it to say "Bradford County Court".

    They're both in the same building but don't go the the wrong one.
    .
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 6th Nov 18, 8:24 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    Apologies, yes it is the County Court, I'm going cross eyed with all of this stress.
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 6th Nov 18, 8:25 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    Its not my local court, I asked for Halifax, but I can still get to Bradford without too much trouble.
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 7th Nov 18, 5:30 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    Ok I have got a trial date for 18th Jan 2019.


    There are leaflets inside, again asking me to take up their mediation service, which I won't take up. I want to face them in court and point that finger.

    On the NOA, it states "District Judge Hickinbottom … allocated the claim to the small claims track" - does that mean that he/she will be the judge on the day?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Nov 18, 1:56 AM
    • 63,913 Posts
    • 76,559 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No it doesn't, there are several Judges there.

    I seem to recall that Judge is a she, and she was the one in stevey's case that his wife lost, but that same Judge was the one in another case, that was won.

    Search the forum for that Judge's surname and read the cases reported to see what she is like, in case she is at your hearing.

    And we trust you are not going to file that letter and drop the ball re the WS deadline!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 10th Nov 18, 1:42 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    Will do - I am putting together my WS as we speak - I assume by 'not going to file that letter' that you mean about the mediation? Cos, no definitely not!
    Just a quick question - I had my cousin with me at the time (it was his hospital appt we had just been to) and so I have asked him to be a witness at the hearing. Do we prepare his witness statement like mine, i.e. the claim number and court at the top? If so, how do we word it i.e. I am xxx, the defendant's cousin etc?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Nov 18, 1:53 AM
    • 10,682 Posts
    • 11,064 Thanks
    KeithP
    I wouldn't draw attention to any relationship between the witness and the keeper.

    "I am Joe Bloggs, and I was an occupant of the car" should be good enough.
    .
    • RedPen50
    • By RedPen50 17th Nov 18, 12:03 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    RedPen50
    I'm still putting my witness statement together along with my cousin's statement but I have dashcam footage of the actual site, showing the lack of signs etc but how would I show / take this to the court? I know I could email a copy of the footage but would they want to play it on the day? Should I take a copy of the footage on my stick?
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