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  • FIRST POST
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 3rd Sep 18, 2:51 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Untergang
    Ace Security Charge Notice
    • #1
    • 3rd Sep 18, 2:51 PM
    Ace Security Charge Notice 3rd Sep 18 at 2:51 PM
    Hello All I am a new member and hoping to get some advice and thoughts re this charge notice.

    I received a parking charge notice this weekend whilst the car was unattended in a visitors bay in a residential estate in West London, I had broken down and pushed the car off the main road into this estate and then went back to my friend whose house I had just left to phone and wait for a mechanic.

    A couple of things to consider, the car is my mothers (I was taking her to visit) so she is the registered keeper. Ace are a member of IPC so can get the keepers details and I really don't want her to start receiving demands for payment as she is elderly and isn't good with stress.

    I plan to appeal directly to ACE as advised on their 'ticket' as I broke down and can provide proof of a call out to a local garage and receipt of work done and include my name and address to spare my mum the stress.

    Has anyone had any joy in getting a charge cancelled on the grounds of a car being broken down and parked in a bay if they can provide proof i.e. breakdown receipt ...or is this likely to be rejected by them out of hand? I get the impression that any appeals are just filed in the bin?

    Thanks in advance for any feedback you may have.
Page 1
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 3rd Sep 18, 2:58 PM
    • 3,207 Posts
    • 2,120 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #2
    • 3rd Sep 18, 2:58 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Sep 18, 2:58 PM
    Has anyone had any joy in getting a charge cancelled on the grounds of a car being broken down and parked in a bay if they can provide proof i.e. breakdown receipt ...or is this likely to be rejected by them out of hand?.
    Originally posted by Untergang
    Search the forum use - Search This Forum, advanced - change "show thread" to "show posts" and put search terms like "broken down" or "RAC" into the search box. There have been a few recently.
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 3rd Sep 18, 3:00 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    • #3
    • 3rd Sep 18, 3:00 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Sep 18, 3:00 PM
    Thank you will do
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Sep 18, 3:12 PM
    • 61,458 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 3rd Sep 18, 3:12 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Sep 18, 3:12 PM
    And only search this parking forum, not the whole of MSE.

    Ace are a member of IPC so can get the keepers details and I really don't want her to start receiving demands for payment as she is elderly and isn't good with stress.

    I plan to appeal directly to ACE as advised on their 'ticket' as I broke down and can provide proof of a call out to a local garage and receipt of work done and include my name and address to spare my mum the stress.
    A good idea under the circumstances. Takes it away from Mum completely.

    You do realise they will turn it down, and that IAS is USUALLY not worth trying...

    ...hmmm...yours might be worth a go, if you know if you lose at IAS, DO NOT PAY!

    Someone appealing with proof of a broken down car could argue there was no contract, and show the IAS the evidence of breakdown, and see what old drivel they come out with! You never know, ACE might cancel when they see the prima facie breakdown evidence, if they think the IAS might accept it.

    ...and if not, so what, and it's good practice for your defence when they then get Gladstones to try a baseless doomed county court claim.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-09-2018 at 3:16 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 5th Sep 18, 5:34 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    • #5
    • 5th Sep 18, 5:34 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Sep 18, 5:34 PM
    Ok am back to the fight now have read up a little and would like to get some advice re the initial appeal direct to Ace (Pace).

    I will email the appeal using the suggested 'Template appeal for BPA or IPC members' on the sticky.

    Of course I will be sending in a scan / photo of the breakdown mechanics receipt... so is it worth trying a diplomatic try first, i.e. I took the car off the road due to it breaking down, this was an exceptional circumstance, I didn't enter into a contract with you etc etc... or both barrels using the template which doesn't hold back?

    Additionally I also had a UK CPM valid parking permit which my friend assured me was valid for that estate, when she called the housing association it appears that ACE have taken over parking control from CPM but she was not informed. The housing association have advised that the appeal is made direct to ACE and then to refer back to the Housing Association if no luck and that they will 'try to help'.

    Lastly I am not the keeper of the vehicle but was indeed the driver so if I don't want to admit liability how would i word this ..as a representative of the keeper?

    Is it ok to communicate via email with them the template suggests rejecting this and supplying a postal address?

    Thanks in advance for any insights and ideas.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Sep 18, 5:40 PM
    • 61,458 Posts
    • 74,341 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 5th Sep 18, 5:40 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Sep 18, 5:40 PM
    I will email the appeal using the suggested 'Template appeal for BPA or IPC members' on the sticky.

    Of course I will be sending in a scan / photo of the breakdown mechanics receipt... so is it worth trying a diplomatic try first, i.e. I took the car off the road due to it breaking down, this was an exceptional circumstance, I didn't enter into a contract with you etc etc... or both barrels using the template which doesn't hold back?
    In your case I would NOT use the template.

    Use your version, but appealing as registered keeper WITHOUT saying ''I'' (say 'the driver did this/that' instead).

    And choose 'I prefer not to say' in the IAS dropdown appeal box when you get to that 2nd stage, because another poster has reported winning an IAS appeal when doing that, but losing an identically worded one where he blabbed about being the driver.

    Reminding us all - this one is worth a punt at IAS due to the car breakdown evidence.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 5th Sep 18, 5:47 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    • #7
    • 5th Sep 18, 5:47 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Sep 18, 5:47 PM
    Thank you Coupan-mad very much appreciated
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 6th Sep 18, 2:56 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 18, 2:56 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Sep 18, 2:56 PM
    Hello, is this a suitable initial appeal?

    Re PCN number: xxxx
    Vehicle reg: xxxx xxx

    I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.
    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract.

    The driver of the vehicle had broken down and took steps to get the car off the road as quickly and safely as possible from xxxx road into xxxxx (****attached photos showing that there were zig zags along the road due to a zebra crossing and that the only safe option was to turn left into the parking controlled estate****)

    The driver then returned to his hosts home to locate and contact a breakdown mechanic and await arrival of the breakdown service.

    Please find attached a copy of the mechanics VAT invoice. (****attached scan of receipt****)

    I contend that due to a mechanical breakdown the driver did not enter into a contractual agreement with Ace Security services Ltd trading as Pace.

    My name

    My address



    Does it need more ... or less? Very disappointing to see on the IPC appeals website that mitigating circumstances make no difference to them, am hoping that a court would take a common sense view that this was not really a contract that the driver willingly entered into and would dismiss the case.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Sep 18, 3:44 PM
    • 61,458 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 18, 3:44 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Sep 18, 3:44 PM
    That'll do.

    That is not mitigating circs. It will probably lose at IAS but worth a punt, with evidence of the breakdown, and choosing 'I prefer not to say' about the driver.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 6th Sep 18, 4:08 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    Thank you once again C-M x
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 7th Sep 18, 5:46 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    Further developments which I thought may be worth posting here, wondering if a two pronged pincer movement may be of benefit.

    Friend received a letter addressed to the occupier today from Remus Estate Management referring to a letter dated 6th August that she should have received by the 8th August (which she is unable to remember receiving, she admits she may well have disposed of it due to its being addressed to the occupier) ...stating as follows:

    Dear Occupier

    RE: XXXXX XXXX - Parking Enforcement

    It has been brought to our attention that a number of residents permits have not had the allocated bay number written on, as per our letter dated 6th August 201. Please see below extract:

    As of 19th August 2018, ACE Security Services, will be taking on the contract of parking enforcement at the development. Enclosed in this letter is a permit, we kindly request that you write your parking bay number below or next to "Only Valid in Bay Number".

    For your convenience we have marked the top right of this letter with your parking bay number.
    We kindly request as a matter of urgency that this is applied to the permit. If you have been issued a Charge Notice you will need to contact Ace Security, details on the charge notice, to discuss further.


    So looks like they may have addressed the issue residents parking permits but what of the visitor permits as I was in fact in a visitors bay with the previous contractors permit affixed, no notification was received of the change and no alternative permits issued to residents either for their vehicles or for visitors and the only instruction being for residents to mark their permit with their bay number as advised in this letter.

    So confuse and muddy the waters and then take advantage to rob people, is this worth addressing in my initial appeal?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Sep 18, 6:15 PM
    • 9,197 Posts
    • 9,371 Thanks
    KeithP
    So confuse and muddy the waters and then take advantage to rob people, is this worth addressing in my initial appeal?
    Originally posted by Untergang
    No .
    .
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 7th Sep 18, 6:33 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    No .
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Ha ... No I wouldn't have said that just address the fact that I did in fact have a visitor permit and was parked in a visitor bay when no new permits had been issued...

    Still not a good idea?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 18, 9:48 PM
    • 61,458 Posts
    • 74,341 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ha ... No I wouldn't have said that just address the fact that I did in fact have a visitor permit and was parked in a visitor bay when no new permits had been issued...

    Still not a good idea?
    Originally posted by Untergang
    Eeek, not when the rest of your appeal says this:
    There will be no admissions as to who was driving
    No blabbing about the driver!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 8th Sep 18, 2:05 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    Thank you C-M yes that makes sense
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 10th Sep 18, 3:49 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    Ok so initial appeal directly to ACE was sent over the weekend via email, received this reply this morning.

    Dear xxxx xxxx

    Thank you for your e-mail, unfortunately as this stage we can only accept an appeal from the driver who parked the vehicle prior to the Charge Notice being issued, as the responsibility lies with them as they entered in to the contract for parking, and they must appeal within 28 days otherwise they will lose the right to appeal.

    The registered Keeper can only appeal after 28 days of the Charge Notice being issued and a Notice to Keeper being sent out and received. As you have contacted us regarding this Charge Notice, you are already aware of it and therefore you would lose the right to appeal after the 28 days from when the Charge Notice was issued.

    Therefore we would politely suggest that the driver appeals to us regarding this Charge Notice. As previously stated, if the driver does not identify themselves within 28 days of the Charge Notice being issued the right to appeal will be lost.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Appeals Department
    Ace Security Services


    Not quite as cut and dried as I had hoped, do I now wait for the solicitors letter ...?

    Thanks in advance for any insight.
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 11th Sep 18, 1:03 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    initial appeal declined due to driver not being named
    Hello All,
    Ok back into the fray, so as post above Ace have declined to accept my appeal as I did not name the driver... I am assuming that giving them the drivers name will not then allow my appeal to be considered and upheld... that this is simply a tactic to get me to name the driver and they will press on regardless.

    A few questions as below:

    1: If they will not consider my initial appeal can I still appeal via the IPC (even if this is a kangaroo court)?

    2: If I receive a claim letter from their solicitors (probably Gladstones), will they send this to me ...or to the registered keeper, being mindful that I do not want the driver to receive anything that may cause them any stress?

    3: I sent a VAT mechanics receipt and photos showing zig zag lines on the main road the only option being for the driver to pull off the road. Would a judge in the county court dismiss this or does Ace have the right to penalise me where I have proof of mechanical failure?

    Sorry if I am a bit rubbish at this, I do appreciate the good info already supplied.
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 12th Sep 18, 3:04 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    Further developments:

    Ok the tenant of the tenant of the property visited had in fact supplied the driver with a visitors parking permit from the previous PPC which was on display in the vehicle.

    She also found a letter from the property management company dated middle of August which stated:

    'I am writing to advise that ACE Security is now the new parking control enforcement for the xxxx xxx development. We have agreed for a grace period to be extended till the 1st September 2018 for all residents to ease into the transition.'

    Additionally the letter 'apologises for the six properties that did not receive their permits initially' and adds 'your permits will be enclosed in this letter' which they were not.

    As the vehicle received the Parking Charge on 1st September and the ambiguous use if till rather than until and that the tenant has still not received any Ace Security permits is it worth me going back to Ace with the photographic proof of the letter and the PC and see what they say?

    Thanks
    • Untergang
    • By Untergang 15th Sep 18, 1:27 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Untergang
    Charge notice rescinded
    So got the below from the estate management company yesterday

    On this occasion as a gesture of goodwill I have spoken with Ace Security and had the ticket rescinded. I would kindly request this information is not shared with other members of the development as I am not in a position to be able to have tickets cancelled without incurring additional expenses.
    Kind regards
    xxxxx


    This was after sending the below cribbed from Parking Prankster and the latter part from LBC to MC Hairray on scribd.

    Dear xxxx
    There are many residential situations where some form of parking management is desired, some of these companies however leave a lot to be desired.
    These companies, such as ACE Security have no desire to implement proper parking management and only want to introduce schemes which are hard to use and which allow them to issue as many parking charges to residents as possible.
    Typical tactics are a feeding frenzy of ticket issuing on day one of the contract, refusal to issue multiple permits, failure to reissue new permits on expiry of old tickets, reliance on paper permits, and refusal to cancel charges when a mistake has been made by them.
    The reason why management companies introduce most of these schemes is to deter non-residents from using residents' parking spaces. The reality is that most charges are issued to residents.
    Ms xxxxx has at this point still not been issued with any new permits by Remus or by Ace, therefore her primacy of contract in her lease which affords her, her household and visitors the right to park cannot be breached by a third party i.e. Ace Security.
    Please be aware that should this ‘parking charge’ not be cancelled forthwith I will add Remus as a party to any proceedings which Ace Security trading as Pace may bring against me, and that I will make a claim against Remus within those proceedings (or by way of a separate claim) for damages in respect of breach of contract.
    Yours faithfully,
    Xxxxxx
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