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  • FIRST POST
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 28th Aug 18, 3:20 PM
    • 59Posts
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    MercurialNo.10
    Small Claims Court Letter - N.Ireland.
    • #1
    • 28th Aug 18, 3:20 PM
    Small Claims Court Letter - N.Ireland. 28th Aug 18 at 3:20 PM
    I am aware of the onus on proof of driver in Northern Ireland, but would love a little help with what to do from here...although the PCN in Northern Ireland is covered in the forum (Have read quite a bit...long time reader, first time poster!) I've posted this as it does seem a little unique. Should there be a different method with regard to multiple PCN's etc.?

    I have never got in contact with the parking company and have kept all letters, but none of the windscreen PCN's.

    I need to submit my response to the claim soon (edited for vagueness)...thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read and respond/offer any advice.

    Cheers again,

    M10.
    Last edited by MercurialNo.10; 27-09-2018 at 3:38 PM.
Page 5
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 13th Oct 18, 6:43 AM
    • 59 Posts
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    MercurialNo.10
    Do you think I should ask for their evidence to help me identify the driver for them?

    I mean if they know who was driving and can evidence that fact, I can help them identify who was responsible and save them wasting the court's time.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 18, 9:40 AM
    • 38,013 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    I thought they had said they believe that to be you, despite what you have told them.

    It will make things easier if you can prove you were elsewhere at the material time.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 13th Oct 18, 10:01 AM
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    MercurialNo.10
    They believe it to be me, if no one is willing to identify themselves as the driver and it's the driver that is liable, then surely they should be able to produce evidence of who was driving to help me identify the party?

    Would love to be able to PM anyone some more relevant details, my employer has some access rights apparently and multiple staff members (including those I believe moved the car) have witnessed parking being freely available as normal behaviour (Permitted by the Enforcement Officer) over the course of years (can back this up with WS's).
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 18, 12:26 PM
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    Fruitcake
    Most people here don't accept PMs otherwise we would be getting about a hundred a day if not more.

    The scammers "should" prove their case against The Driver, and should identify them. However they only have to "prove" this to a court on a 50.01% probability.

    A witness statement from you saying it wasn't you, makes it harder for them to do that, but over here that comes down to playing judge bingo. Some will say, he says she says, and without proof from the scammers they will find for the defendant.
    Others will say, this company must have good reason to believe you were driving and since they are an honest upstanding pillar of the community acting for the best interests of the landowner, and you have not provided any proof that you weren't driving, they may find for the claimant.

    Proving it could not have been you makes it impossible for them to make their case, hence my questions about you being able to prove it wasn't you, and therefore there is no case since only the driver can be held liable in NI.

    It's a question of whether you can make this easy for yourself by proving it wasn't you, even though you don't (shouldn't) have to.


    If you can prove beyond doubt you weren't driving, then the claim is unreasonable and you could claim costs as well as helping with a landmark case.


    If you can't prove it, then of course your defence should concentrate on the fact that the claimant can't prove it was you, and you have made a statement of truth to a court that it wasn't you.

    In my opinion, if you can prove your case then you should, no rely on the claimant failing to prove yours.

    So, receipts, witness statements, sign in/login in at work, witness statements from people who saw you that day at that time, or timed and dated photos will all help you with this.

    Remember, you are not dealing with reasonable people and they will try to make you look unreasonable for "refusing" to say who was driving, even though there is no requirement to do so.

    Yes you can ask them for details/images of The Driver so you can help them to identify the person who moved your car, but all they have to do is say, can't cos of data protection, then you are stuck. In any case, I wouldn't want to drop one of my mates or family in the doo doo by naming them.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-10-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 17th Oct 18, 10:26 AM
    • 59 Posts
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    MercurialNo.10
    Also noticed that some of the NtK's are 80+ Days...so if they are following BPA guidelines they are doing so selectively it would appear.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Oct 18, 10:31 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    BPA allows them up to 6 months, as thats the limit for KADOE access.
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 17th Oct 18, 10:48 AM
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    MercurialNo.10
    KADOE only seems to mention driver when mentioning Northern Ireland or am I misinterpreting?


    B2. Purpose For Which Data Is Provided

    B2.1. The DVLA shall provide each requested item of Data to the Customer
    via the KADOE Service for the Reasonable Cause of enabling the
    Customer to:
    a) seek recovery of unpaid Parking Charges in accordance with the
    Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice, and using the
    procedure in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
    (where the vehicle was parked on private land in England or Wales on
    a particular date); and
    b) otherwise seek recovery from a driver of unpaid Parking Charges in
    accordance with the Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice
    (where the vehicle was parked on private land in Scotland or Northern
    Ireland by that driver on a particular date, or where the Customer has
    chosen not to pursue, or is not in a position to pursue the vehicle
    keeper by utilising conditions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of
    Freedoms Act 2012).
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 18, 11:10 AM
    • 20,580 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    where the vehicle was parked on private land in Scotland or Northern Ireland by that driver on a particular date,
    ...... by asking/inviting the RK (the only link the DVLA has with the vehicle) to tell them (the PPC) who the driver was and what his/her address for service (of a Notice to Driver) is.

    Was always the case in E/W too ....... until PoFA 2012 came along!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Oct 18, 12:11 PM
    • 4,129 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Yep, tjhey can only ask who the driver is in NI.
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 17th Oct 18, 10:21 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    MercurialNo.10
    Would anyone be kind enough to look at some wording privately? At this stage on the cusp of potential court, I want to be very careful with what I'm posting etc.

    I have Witness Statements, a couple of the letters (not all of them as I thought they were junk), have the Greenslade excerpt and some images linked to the varying WS's.

    Submission time is approaching, so any help would be appreciated.
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 18th Oct 18, 6:26 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    MercurialNo.10
    Can anyone have a glance?
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 18th Oct 18, 3:10 PM
    • 59 Posts
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    MercurialNo.10
    It's on like Donkey Kong.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 18th Oct 18, 3:34 PM
    • 4,129 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    It is rare that we suggest you look at things privately. It removes a LOT of the review that takes place
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th Oct 18, 4:05 PM
    • 38,013 Posts
    • 85,356 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Most people here won't accept PMs.

    There are only a handful of legally trained/legal professionals that post on the parking forum, and they may have no knowledge of the NI legal system.

    It really is better for you to post redacted info here and get input from as many posters as possible rather than only get the opinion of one or if you are lucky, two people.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 18th Oct 18, 4:53 PM
    • 5,683 Posts
    • 5,572 Thanks
    DoaM
    It really is better for you to post redacted info here
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Agreed. What you'll be posting won't be anything new (apart from personal details, like your name, VRM, dates and places of the alleged "offences" - all of which you can redact without losing the meaning of what is posted).

    People can then review and comment - e.g. on typos, things which may be irrelevant, things which you may have missed that might be relevant, etc.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 18th Oct 18, 5:50 PM
    • 59 Posts
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    MercurialNo.10
    It's about Witness Statements and it'd be a dead give away about the situation. I do feel like I am in a very strong position following looking at their 'evidence'.
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 18th Oct 18, 5:53 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    MercurialNo.10
    The particular paragraph I have issues with is from other people who have witnessed various vehicles (including the vehicle I am the RK of) being allowed to park as a matter of routine by different drivers over a period of years.

    One of these vehicles is actually visible on Google maps!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 18, 5:56 PM
    • 20,580 Posts
    • 32,498 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    It's about Witness Statements and it'd be a dead give away about the situation. I do feel like I am in a very strong position following looking at their 'evidence'.
    Originally posted by MercurialNo.10
    They'll be seeing your WS soon enough surely? You can't keep evidence hidden hoping for an ambush in court (well, certainly not in E/W).

    If it puts you in such a strong position, it may be that them having an earlier viewing, they might decide to discontinue? That must be the best outcome for you?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 19th Oct 18, 3:48 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    MercurialNo.10
    Bundle's in, the Court staff seemed quite happy about me disputing...I was even asked if I was in the legal system, so it must seen like I know my proverbial onions!

    Now we wait.
    • MercurialNo.10
    • By MercurialNo.10 27th Oct 18, 1:09 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    MercurialNo.10
    If they're trying it on by submitting late appendix evidence for their claim by post in response to my bundle, what are my rights?

    Still nothing showing any driver.

    Should I remain quiet in court?
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