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  • FIRST POST
    • tristanjourney
    • By tristanjourney 26th Aug 18, 11:34 AM
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    tristanjourney
    Freehold/Leasehold in Sale Contract
    • #1
    • 26th Aug 18, 11:34 AM
    Freehold/Leasehold in Sale Contract 26th Aug 18 at 11:34 AM
    Hi all,

    In the contract of buying my first home. I see following paragraph very hard for me to understand:

    ALL THAT FREEHOLD piece or parcel of land together with the dwellinghouse or messuage and outbuildings and All THAT LEASEHOLD piece or parcel of land together with the dwellinghouse or messuage and outbuildings thereto erected thereon or on some part thereof situate at and known as {100 abc drive, abc village, POSTCODE} comprised and demised by a Lease (hereinafter called "the Lease") dated 1st day of January 1978 made between {A} and {B} of the other part (a copy of which said Lease has been provided to the Buyers prior to the date hereof and who shall be deemed to purchase with full knowledge of all matters therein referred to hereinafter referred to as "the Property"
    The home I am buying has both leasehold and freehold, and that's probably why the above paragraph contains both freehold and leasehold.

    I also noticed that round bracket at the end of the paragraph is not closed, so I am wondering is that a standard or just a mistake?

    Could anyone advise is the above paragraph just a boilerplate that appear in every contract?

    Or could anyone point me to some legal reference for me to read?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by tristanjourney; 27-08-2018 at 7:37 PM. Reason: formatting
Page 1
    • tristanjourney
    • By tristanjourney 27th Aug 18, 10:52 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tristanjourney
    • #2
    • 27th Aug 18, 10:52 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Aug 18, 10:52 PM
    Any comments or advices?
    • MichaelMe
    • By MichaelMe 27th Aug 18, 11:04 PM
    • 13 Posts
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    MichaelMe
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 18, 11:04 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 18, 11:04 PM
    Interesting. I’m no expert but it looks like from the wording that you are purchasing the freehold title (land and buildings) which also includes a leasehold or part of a leasehold. I would suggest that you get full definitive clarification from your solicitor. But that’s what it looks like to me.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 27th Aug 18, 11:47 PM
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    davidmcn
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 18, 11:47 PM
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 18, 11:47 PM
    Any comments or advices?
    Originally posted by tristanjourney
    Speak to your solicitor. You're already paying them for advice.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 28th Aug 18, 3:40 AM
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    G_M
    • #5
    • 28th Aug 18, 3:40 AM
    • #5
    • 28th Aug 18, 3:40 AM

    The home I am buying has both leasehold and freehold, and that's probably why the above paragraph contains both freehold and leasehold.
    Yes of course. You are buying both. I assume you knew this?


    I also noticed that round bracket at the end of the paragraph is not closed, so I am wondering is that a standard or just a mistake?
    mistake. But unimportant.


    Could anyone advise is the above paragraph just a boilerplate that appear in every contract?
    No. Because not everyone buys both freehold and leasehold.


    Or could anyone point me to some legal reference for me to read?
    No. It takes 3 years to get a law degree and a further year+ to qualify as a lawyer.
    Originally posted by tristanjourney
    Are you doing the conveyancing yourself? Clearly in your case this is a bad idea.


    Or paying a conveyancer? Pop in to his office tomorrow and ask to see him for an explanation.


    I assume though that you have seen and read



    * the freehold Title
    * the freehold Title Plan

    * the leasehold Title
    * the leasehold Title Plan
    * the lease dated 1st day of January 1978

    * the lease Plan dated 1st day of January 1978
    • tristanjourney
    • By tristanjourney 28th Aug 18, 1:06 PM
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    tristanjourney
    • #6
    • 28th Aug 18, 1:06 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Aug 18, 1:06 PM
    Are you doing the conveyancing yourself? Clearly in your case this is a bad idea.


    Or paying a conveyancer? Pop in to his office tomorrow and ask to see him for an explanation.


    I assume though that you have seen and read



    * the freehold Title
    * the freehold Title Plan

    * the leasehold Title
    * the leasehold Title Plan
    * the lease dated 1st day of January 1978

    * the lease Plan dated 1st day of January 1978
    Originally posted by G_M
    Thanks for the advise. I am not self conveyancing.

    My solicitor has confirmed that the missing bracket is a typo but shouldn’t matter.

    I knew I am buying both titles and in the contract both titles number are included with the full title guarantee.

    I also have read all documents you mentioned.
    • SmashedAvacado
    • By SmashedAvacado 28th Aug 18, 3:08 PM
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    SmashedAvacado
    • #7
    • 28th Aug 18, 3:08 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Aug 18, 3:08 PM
    This is a bit of an old fashioned description but its probably the description of the property as shown in the registered titles - of which there will be two

    Despite the assurance from G_M, Its simply not accurate to say everyone buys freehold and leasehold - you only buy leasehold if there is a lease in existence. You would never refer to a leasehold title if you were not buying the subject matter of a lease

    Your position is that your property comprises 2 parcels. One freehold and one which is held on a lease. The contract identifies them both but they will be registered separately so your contract will refer to a least two title numbers. This type of arrangement usually happens when some land is added - like a garage or a garden via the grant of a lease.
    • tristanjourney
    • By tristanjourney 28th Aug 18, 7:05 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tristanjourney
    • #8
    • 28th Aug 18, 7:05 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Aug 18, 7:05 PM
    This is a bit of an old fashioned description but its probably the description of the property as shown in the registered titles - of which there will be two

    Despite the assurance from G_M, Its simply not accurate to say everyone buys freehold and leasehold - you only buy leasehold if there is a lease in existence. You would never refer to a leasehold title if you were not buying the subject matter of a lease

    Your position is that your property comprises 2 parcels. One freehold and one which is held on a lease. The contract identifies them both but they will be registered separately so your contract will refer to a least two title numbers. This type of arrangement usually happens when some land is added - like a garage or a garden via the grant of a lease.
    Originally posted by SmashedAvacado
    Thank you for your comment.

    Yes, the contract included 2 registered titles. But the lease is not due to some land is added. The leasehold title and freehold title has exactly the same boundary (as far as I can see). There are two titles as the seller has bought the freehold long time ago but hasn't closed the leasehold.

    This may not very common but did happened to certain homeowners.

    My solicitor will close the leasehold after completion, so it will be just one freehold at the end.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 28th Aug 18, 7:21 PM
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 28th Aug 18, 7:21 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Aug 18, 7:21 PM

    Despite the assurance from G_M, Its simply not accurate to say everyone buys freehold and leasehold - you only buy leasehold if there is a lease in existence. You would never refer to a leasehold title if you were not buying the subject matter of a lease

    Y.
    Originally posted by SmashedAvacado
    Where did I say "everyone buys freehold and leasehold"? I said "You are buying both. I assume you knew this?" since the OP has already said "The home I am buying has both leasehold and freehold,"



    • Richard Webster
    • By Richard Webster 15th Sep 18, 4:07 PM
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    Richard Webster
    Op wanted my comments - see GM's post who replied sensibly to most of the points. I add as follows:

    Not uncommon to see the same person owning both freehold and leasehold titles to the same property. I assume it is not a flat - because that can complicate matters significantly.

    Once the two are purchased OP's solicitors can merge the titles but they need to check carefully before they do so.

    Where I used to practice we had a lot of 1900 ish houses held on long leases with a right to use the rear accessway (important for parking) but the freehold gave no such right. Merge the two and you lost the right - so we used to keep both titles going for that reason.
    RICHARD WEBSTER

    As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.
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