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  • FIRST POST
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 21st Aug 18, 9:37 AM
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    Manc88
    Letter of Claim - BW Legal/NCP
    • #1
    • 21st Aug 18, 9:37 AM
    Letter of Claim - BW Legal/NCP 21st Aug 18 at 9:37 AM
    Hi all,

    I have just received a letter of claim from BW Legal on behalf of NCP for 160, relating to a 'Parked without payment of parking charge' contravention in October last year that I have no recollection of.

    I have read the Newbies thread and will be putting together a response form the available templates later on today, but just had a couple of questions relating to this specific case which I was hoping you could offer advice on, and also wanted to start up a thread in preparation of the inevitable-sounding County Court Claim.

    1. I assume the correct course of action now is to follow the advice on post 2 of the newbies thread and send a robust response and then follow up correspondence accordingly?

    2. Prior to this letter I had only received one notification of this parking charge from a debt collectors. I am assuming this was owing to a change of address in November last year, but does the fact I have not received any letters form NCP in the first instance have any bearing in my response letter?

    3. Does the fact they have misspelled my name on the Letter of Claim have any relevance?

    Thank you in advance for any advice; this letter was a bit of a shock and day-ruiner yesterday, so I'm hoping it can be resolved without having to pay out!
Page 2
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 12th Sep 18, 9:13 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Thanks beamerguy. Like this?)

    [IMG]hxxp://i63.tinypic.com/2vipimu.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]hxxp://i63.tinypic.com/35letc9.jpg[/IMG]
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Sep 18, 9:36 AM
    • 23,080 Posts
    • 36,663 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    http://i63.tinypic.com/2vipimu.jpg

    http://i63.tinypic.com/35letc9.jpg
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • archived user
    Where are the pics of the signs, the car and the paperwork? If you didn't get them go back and give them 7 days. Then complain to the Information Commissioner's Office.

    Also check who pays the non-domestic rates with the local council. It should be NCP but check anyway as you may need to go back to BW if it is not them.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 13th Sep 18, 8:35 AM
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    Manc88
    Hi IamEmanresu,

    They have said their client is under no obligation to provide the plan of the carpark (Point 8), and have just said their signs comply (point 9). RE: the request for the original PCN, they have just said this has already been issued (point 11).

    Will double check the non-domestic rates. What is this for?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 13th Sep 18, 9:24 AM
    • 11,091 Posts
    • 14,868 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Anyone noticed in this one

    http://i63.tinypic.com/35letc9.jpg

    They claim that NCP complies to the IPC code of practice
    ???
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
  • archived user
    Go back to BW and raise a complaint about their failure to supply the information. Did you make the request under Subject Access Request or a request for information to narrow the issues.

    Give them 7 days and make sure you make it clear in any defence or Witness Statement about BW obstructive behaviour and their unwillingness to follow the overriding principles of the Civil Procedure Rules.

    If you let them take advantage, they will. The PPC already has so don't let them compound it.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 14th Sep 18, 11:13 AM
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    Manc88
    Hi IamEmanresu,

    I made the request for the information as "a formal request for all of the documents / information that the [Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims] now requires your client to provide."

    So next steps are to write a response complaining that they have not provided the required information of the signs, plan and pictures of the car?

    Do I need to worry about the supposed 14 day deadline they have mentioned in the letter?
  • archived user
    So next steps are to write a response complaining that they have not provided the required information of the signs, plan and pictures of the car?
    Yes. Refer to the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure rules but also have it in any defence you submit should they move forward

    Do I need to worry about the supposed 14 day deadline they have mentioned in the letter?
    No. If their client is going to issue a claim it will come. You just need to push back at them.

    The reason you got that reply is that they don't actually have the information. They never have it as the client hasn't supplied it. They should have as they are supposed to advise if a claim is mertited but they don't ask for it. It is all computer generated so you push so they have to do some work.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 17th Sep 18, 9:02 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Hi all,

    Just drafted my response letter. Please see below and let me know if you think there's anything I need to add, delete or change:

    BW Legal,
    Enterprise House,
    Apex View,
    Leeds,
    LS119BH

    Ref: XXXXXXXX

    Date

    Dear Sirs,

    I have received your response to my request for information relating to the above incident, and once again you have failed to supply sufficient documentation for me to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it.

    This breaches paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2(a) and 5.2(b) of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt claims and completely goes against the aims of the Protocol as outlined in paragraphs 2.1(a) and 2.1(b).

    The alleged incident is not something I have any recollection of, and as previously stated, I have never received a PCN from your client in relation to this. I therefore request again the following information be provided to me within the next seven days:

    1. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    2. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    3. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
    4. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
    5. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    6. Details of the original PCN; when was this issued, in what form (attached to the vehicle, sent via post), if via post, to which address was this sent?

    If your client does not provide me with this information, I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    Yours Faithfully
    X
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Sep 18, 9:37 AM
    • 5,007 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    I always add:
    As you must already have sight of this informaiton, as part of your professional diligence, there should be no issue with providing such.

    I would rmeove the "reserve the right" - say you WILL bring this to the courts attention.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 17th Sep 18, 10:10 AM
    • 11,091 Posts
    • 14,868 Thanks
    beamerguy
    I always add:
    As you must already have sight of this informaiton, as part of your professional diligence, there should be no issue with providing such.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Now that I like

    Suppose it depends if BWLegal think they are professional ..
    OR NOT as the case might be
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 19th Sep 18, 6:29 AM
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    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Thanks both,

    Letter sent today. I'll update when I get a response.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 24th Oct 18, 10:53 AM
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    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Just to update: I've now received two letters since the above response to confirm that the file is on hold while BW Legal make contact with their client to get the information requested. Is there no maximum term they have to get this information in, or is it just a case of taking as long as it takes?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Oct 18, 11:10 AM
    • 11,091 Posts
    • 14,868 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Just to update: I've now received two letters since the above response to confirm that the file is on hold while BW Legal make contact with their client to get the information requested. Is there no maximum term they have to get this information in, or is it just a case of taking as long as it takes?
    Originally posted by Manc88
    You just have to wait. This does prove one thing, when BWLegal bring their claims ,,,,, they simply don't know what they are claiming for ?????
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 2nd Jan 19, 8:34 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Hi all, just to update; still no further response since my last letter from BW Legal in October, so still on hold.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 5th Feb 19, 9:15 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Hi all,

    After beginning to get my hopes up that this had gone away, I have now received a response form BW legal with the car park site map and pictures of the signage. The letter reads as follows:

    Dear XX
    Our Client: National Car Parks Limited
    Balance Due: XX
    Account Number: XX

    Further to the query you raised with us, Our Client has now provided us with the information you have requested and we have enclosed this for you.
    Our client has confirmed that they will not provide a copy of the contract between them and the landowner. They have confirmed that National Car Parks Limited are the landowners. With regards to the font size, our client has confirmed that all signs have been audited and are compliant with minimum sizes. Should you wish to find further information regarding this, please visit our client's website. Our client has also confirmed that the Parking Charge Notice was not affixed to the windscreen, it was sent in the post as the evidence was taken by an ANPR camera.
    Your vehicle breached the terms and conditions of this car park by parking without payment of parking charge. As a result of the breach, Our Client is well within their contractual rights to issue the Parking Charge Notice and take all necessary steps (including bringing legal proceedings) to recover the outstanding charge. Please note that Our Client will not accept a settlement for this Account, therefore the Outstanding Balance remains Due and Owing.
    We trust this now concludes any outstanding queries you had raised with ourselves. It is important that you now contact us in order that we can discuss an affordable payment arrangement.
    Failure to contact us within 14 days may lead to the following:
    • Further collections activity; or
    • Further legal action
    What You Need To Do Now
    Call us on 0113 487 0430 and one of our helpful agents can either set up an affordable payment arrangement for you taking into account your financial circumstances or our helpful agents can settle any query you have.... etc

    They have failed to provide the following:

    1. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    2. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.

    Any advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Feb 19, 9:24 AM
    • 23,080 Posts
    • 36,663 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Any advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated
    There are really no 'next steps'. You are in the hands of NCP/BWL to see their next move.

    While there has been a great deal of huffing and puffing we are not aware that any NCP case has entered any courtroom, and there's a good indication that all of this threat of legal action is just a ratcheting up of the debt recovery process by BWL (debt recovery is their main business).

    You can wait for court papers to arrive (if they ever do), but you'll be faced with up to 6 years of uncertainty as to whether they will or not. Alternatively, why not smack the bully on the nose by telling them not to mess you about any further and for them to now issue their claim via the court where you will mount a robust defence and persuade a Judge to find in your favour. You will be seeking a cost order against NCP when you prevail.

    What's the worst that can happen with that approach?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Feb 19, 9:28 AM
    • 5,007 Posts
    • 6,251 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Respond back, and point out that
    1) Stating they will not provide a copy of the contract, proving their authority, means you will presume there is no contract. To later produce this, when it could have narrowed the issues under dispute, will be deemed unreasonable behaviour.
    There is no reasonable excuse to refuse to provide this, which is why I notice you didnt provide one

    2) Remind them of the eleemnts they failed to provide
    State that, as they are required under the PAP to provide these documents within 30 days OR provide a reason why not, they are in breach of the PAP and this wil be agsin raised as unreasonable behaviour.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 6th Feb 19, 1:48 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Thanks both, I'm away until next week now, so will look to send them a response when I get back.
    • Manc88
    • By Manc88 13th Feb 19, 10:40 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Manc88
    Hi all, I'm just browsing the forums for ideas on what to put in my next response, as well as what to expect should this proceed to court, and having re-read the Newbies thread, am wondering if I have made a mistake in sending the information request to BW legal rather than NCP directly.

    I am not sure if this has changed since I started this thread, as I can no longer find the links to the example response letters I used for my first response, but Newbies thread says first course of action should be a SAR direct to NCP. As I have only corresponded with BW legal to date I am wondering if I should send an SAR directly to NCP now, or whether it is too late to do so?

    Also, an additional question regarding if this goes to court and doesn't win, would I be liable for legal expenses on top of the 100 fine? (assuming the 60 inflation from BW legal is knocked off) If so, would this not take the amount above what is currently being claimed?
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