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  • FIRST POST
    • Rushed44
    • By Rushed44 15th Aug 18, 6:08 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 88Thanks
    Rushed44
    Exchanged - Owner now passed away
    • #1
    • 15th Aug 18, 6:08 PM
    Exchanged - Owner now passed away 15th Aug 18 at 6:08 PM
    We exchanged contracts on 19th July. Vendor wanted a 3 month completion as she was using the time to have work done to a flat she owned that she was moving into. Thankfully our buyers agreed to a longer than normal completion and we settled on two months (only three in chain).

    The house needs a bit of work done and we had agreed the vendor would allow access for quotes etc. All was going well. Almost two weeks ago we found out the owner has died. Not a huge problem we thought. We knew she had a daughter who lived locally but they didn't really get on. We passed on a sympathy card with our contact details (it's a private sale and not through an agent).

    The daughter called me earlier today. The upshot is she is moving in. It's her childhood home and she knows nothing of any sale (but does know about the flat). What the hell do we do now?

    Our solicitor has yet to get back to us
Page 6
    • sal_III
    • By sal_III 23rd Aug 18, 2:27 PM
    • 644 Posts
    • 657 Thanks
    sal_III
    We were debating if we should go to the funeral considering what's gone on but we realised that the daughter doesn't know what we look like, she only knows my name and number so as long as my phone is switched off I'm good.
    Originally posted by Rushed44
    Don't count on this, in this day and age so much info is public - Facebook, Google, Instagram, Tweeter, LinkedIn etc. that you will be amazed how easy is to get pictures of someone.

    Even if you are a "digital hermit" and don't use any of these, your friends are family are likely using them and you are tagged left, right and centre.

    Also depending on the size of the funeral, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out that the two middle aged (speculation) males that look a like are the two brothers standing to inherit £600k

    That said, personally I would attend if I were you regardless, you had a relationship with the deceased and you are named in the will, you have the right to be there. If the daughter identifies you and decides to kick a fuss, just handle it with grace and maybe leave early if you must.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 23rd Aug 18, 2:29 PM
    • 33,058 Posts
    • 19,928 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Normally this would be true had exchange not happened already while the owner was still alive and presumably “being of sound mind". The Conveyancing solicitor has already received instructions on the matter and the deal is done.

    As already pointed by others there are 2 separate "issues"

    - House sale, with exchanged contracts, where the executor of the estate has a due care to complete, instead of incurring penalties from the breach of contracts and diminishes the size of the estate. The daughter of the deceased has no say on the matter.

    - Distribution of the estate. The daughter have the right to contest the will given the amounts awarded to the OP and his brother, whether it will be successful or not remains to be seen. But unless the property is explicitly listed in the will it makes no material difference to the estate, whether it's in "solid" or "liquid" state. If anything liquidating it will make the distribution easier.
    Originally posted by sal_III
    That cannot happen without the grant, not found anything to say otherwise(that's assuming the mum was the only/last legal owner)

    Even though the powers come from the will don't think the land reg will allow the change of legal owner without a grant.

    Technically the house is held as a trust by the legal owners for the beneficiaries so potentially the beneficial ownership could be transferred but I doubt any solicitors are going to be happy with that scenario if they can't get a grant and change the legal owners as well just in case there is something that can go wrong.

    Executors probably not going to do it either as that opens up the personal liability angle.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 23rd Aug 18, 2:34 PM
    • 8,508 Posts
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    davidmcn
    That cannot happen without the grant, not found anything to say otherwise(that's assuming the mum was the only/last legal owner)

    Even though the powers come from the will don't think the land reg will allow the change of legal owner without a grant.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Yep, like I said (back on the first page!) even if everyone is fully co-operative it's unlikely to happen for the original completion date.
    • CM66
    • By CM66 5th Sep 18, 1:41 PM
    • 552 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    CM66
    Any update on this?
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 5th Sep 18, 2:34 PM
    • 4,882 Posts
    • 3,115 Thanks
    csgohan4
    So sad that the daughter does not want to continue the wishes of the mother and indeed want to profit from it , despite not being on the scene enough to even warrant a sizable mention in the will.

    Shows how much she keeps in contact if non family members are in the will.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • patchwork cat
    • By patchwork cat 5th Sep 18, 3:06 PM
    • 5,662 Posts
    • 8,760 Thanks
    patchwork cat
    There is no such thing as will reading in this country it is a media device, so when you said the will was read I am afraid that little red flags were raised for me.Then that you and your brother were beneficiaries and the exact sum is stated !Usually with a will it is either specific amounts left and the residue to..., but unfortunately in concocting your reply you forgot about the flat part of the estate and any monies in hand etc. etc.

    Don't forget to cover the dog's head as you take it through the house.

    • Rushed44
    • By Rushed44 5th Sep 18, 4:43 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    Rushed44
    Well we did attend the funeral and all went well. The daughter did introduce herself and we simply gave different names, it certainly wasn't the day for such discussions.

    We're completing on Tuesday week as intended, but only on our home. We have told our buyers the issue but told them that we are selling. Completion can not happen on the place we're buying until probate is sorted. We will be renting as we've found an acceptable address (for the school application) and we will be asking the estate to refund us on that rent.

    The daughter did say she was going to contest but we have learnt that after the 2 x £300K, and her £50K whatever is left is divided equally between the grandchildren. So if she contests then it affects her children's' cut. We also heard that she was quite well off, we already know her house and flat and we heard there is at least another two houses.

    To the doubters I don't care what you think. I only wish this wasn't true as it's a nightmare
    Last edited by Rushed44; 05-09-2018 at 4:46 PM.
    • GaleSF63
    • By GaleSF63 5th Sep 18, 6:54 PM
    • 284 Posts
    • 397 Thanks
    GaleSF63
    There is no such thing as will reading in this country...
    Originally posted by patchwork cat
    A lot of people do use the expression though. Sometimes through ignorance - and too many Agatha Christies, but usually they just mean when the contents of the will are made known.
    • YoungBlueEyes
    • By YoungBlueEyes 5th Sep 18, 7:56 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 423 Thanks
    YoungBlueEyes
    When father died last year, our solic read out the will to us. Gave us each a copy of it too. It may not be common practice but it does happen outside the movies.
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 6th Sep 18, 12:07 AM
    • 11,238 Posts
    • 24,112 Thanks
    POPPYOSCAR
    There is no such thing as will reading in this country it is a media device, so when you said the will was read I am afraid that little red flags were raised for me.Then that you and your brother were beneficiaries and the exact sum is stated !Usually with a will it is either specific amounts left and the residue to..., but unfortunately in concocting your reply you forgot about the flat part of the estate and any monies in hand etc. etc.

    Don't forget to cover the dog's head as you take it through the house.
    Originally posted by patchwork cat
    With a 'bag for life'..........................
    • hjd
    • By hjd 6th Sep 18, 7:20 AM
    • 1,110 Posts
    • 8,158 Thanks
    hjd
    There is no such thing as will reading in this country it is a media device, so when you said the will was read I am afraid that little red flags were raised for me.Then that you and your brother were beneficiaries and the exact sum is stated !Usually with a will it is either specific amounts left and the residue to..., but unfortunately in concocting your reply you forgot about the flat part of the estate and any monies in hand etc. etc.

    Don't forget to cover the dog's head as you take it through the house.
    Originally posted by patchwork cat
    Unfortunately just because you have never heard of will reading and beneficiaries being left exact amounts doesn't mean they never happen. They both do. Perhaps you should get your facts right before you are so rude.
    I have no connection with OP.
    • troffasky
    • By troffasky 7th Sep 18, 11:24 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    troffasky
    I have no connection with OP.
    Originally posted by hjd

    Ahhh, that's what you think, but this thread could yet take another twist!
    • Bass_9
    • By Bass_9 8th Sep 18, 6:56 AM
    • 139 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    Bass_9
    Ahhh, that's what you think, but this thread could yet take another twist!
    Originally posted by troffasky
    That would just be OPs luck... half of the people posting on here related to the mother and daughter.
    • hjd
    • By hjd 8th Sep 18, 7:19 AM
    • 1,110 Posts
    • 8,158 Thanks
    hjd
    Ahhh, that's what you think
    Originally posted by troffasky
    That's what I know.
    • Choccygirl123
    • By Choccygirl123 8th Sep 18, 2:18 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    Choccygirl123
    School applications
    Your local authority will accept a copy of your exchange paperwork for school application so don't worry about that causing as issue.
    Always counting down to pay day, but making baby steps getting life on track! Looking forward to cracking the debt once and for all.
    • Rushed44
    • By Rushed44 14th Sep 18, 11:30 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    Rushed44
    An update:

    We've moved into our rental, costs to be met by our vendors estate.

    Probate is moving, slowly. The best we have is completion within a year.

    The vendors daughter changes her mind on a regular basis whether or not she will contest the will, what we do know is that if she does then her children will effectively be paying to fight it as costs will come from their cut.

    The school we're applying for have confirmed they will accept exchange paperwork which is brilliant for us.

    We have been denied permission to access the house by the daughter. Basically it's no access until completion.

    We did meet with our buyers and tell them what was going on but assured them their purchase was fine and we complete on Tuesday on our sale.
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 15th Sep 18, 12:47 AM
    • 1,881 Posts
    • 2,705 Thanks
    FreeBear
    The vendors daughter changes her mind on a regular basis whether or not she will contest the will, what we do know is that if she does then her children will effectively be paying to fight it as costs will come from their cut.
    Originally posted by Rushed44
    Well... If she is going to challenge the validity of the will, she needs to pull her finger out and do so before probate is granted. or if it is a claim under the inheritance act, she has six months from the date of probate being granted to enter a claim.

    In either case, a solicitor acting on her behalf will want a substantial sum of money up front - A starter retainer of around £20K, and if it gets to court, another £40K. She *might* find a solicitor who will take it on subject to a conditional fee arrangement, but even that would be subject to an up front payment of around 50% of the expected legal costs. None of that would be reclaimable from the estate unless she won and the judge made an order for costs.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • Teamocil
    • By Teamocil 16th Sep 18, 9:42 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Teamocil
    This is extremely fishy. A dying woman not only left the OP £300k but sold them her house at what appears to be well below market value. If I were the daughter, I'd be questioning every aspect of this.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 16th Sep 18, 9:50 AM
    • 4,882 Posts
    • 3,115 Thanks
    csgohan4
    This is extremely fishy. A dying woman not only left the OP £300k but sold them her house at what appears to be well below market value. If I were the daughter, I'd be questioning every aspect of this.
    Originally posted by Teamocil


    if you read the posts 60-64, the daughter had been estranged for 8 years and the mother exercised her right of what she wanted to do with her estate.


    There have been a few cases of relatives contesting wills when it was made with a sound mind which is sad and in effect greed and having it on. They only cared when money came into it.




    Either way it is up to the solicitors to thrash this one out
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • SeasideSally
    • By SeasideSally 16th Sep 18, 9:58 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    SeasideSally
    This is extremely fishy. A dying woman not only left the OP £300k but sold them her house at what appears to be well below market value. If I were the daughter, I'd be questioning every aspect of this.
    Originally posted by Teamocil
    I don't see how it's fishy. I might have missed something, but I don't remember reading that she was dying; I thought the death was unexpected. A person has the right to leave their estate to anyone they choose.

    And the daughter is questioning everything because she's after the money. She can't stand to sell her childhood home... but can come to terms with doing it if she's paid £80k? Before knowing if she is even entitled to the estate?

    When I lost my mother, my sister locked me out of my mother's house. Before I'd had the chance to wrap my head around what had happened, she'd sold every stick of furniture, every possession she thought was worth anything, and thrown everything she couldn't sell into the bin. Blood isn't thicker than water. A bad daughter doesn't stop being bad just because her mother has passed away; if anything, some get worse.
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