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    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 12th Aug 18, 7:08 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 4Thanks
    ssm90
    Query on next steps for PCN
    • #1
    • 12th Aug 18, 7:08 PM
    Query on next steps for PCN 12th Aug 18 at 7:08 PM
    Hello guys,

    I moved into a new address 2 months ago and on my first 2 days, I received 2 tickets in 2 days for parking in my own bay without a permit. (no one had mentioned I needed a permit, but I guess they dont care). At this point I had already contacted the operator within 2 hours of moving into the property and provided proof of address and paid fee for permit. They confirmed on the phone to me that the permit will be posted and that my bay will not be monitored for 7 days and that I was ALLOWED to park in my spot. NOTE: I asked for this confirmation by e-mail but the guy was rude and said it'll be fine and basically refused to send it via e-mail, so I have no written confirmation of this.

    Timeline:
    25 June
    10:00 - Moved in
    11:30 - Provided proof of address and paid
    12:00 - Phone confirmation that bay wont be monitored
    14:06 - Received PCN 1
    16:09 - Appealed via e-mail as per operators instructions (I have proof of all appeals and timestamps in e-mail)
    16:09 - Received response that they will get back to me in 14 days

    26 June
    20:06 - Received PCN 2

    27 June
    Rang operator, got through to same guy from previous days. I mentioned that he said I could park there and bay wouldn't be monitored as permit was in the post. He only had one response throughout 'Appeal it'. He refused to acknowledge that he basically said I could park there and then gave me a ticket...

    30 June - Appealed PCN 2. Received response saying they will respond within 14 days.

    LONG GAP WITH NOTHING HAPPENING

    28th July - Letter through door for PCN 1 saying fine has now gone up to 100 as I never appealed and the time limit has expired. Even though I did appeal immediately and have proof.

    I e-mailed them again with proof of my original appeal and haven't heard back yet.

    LONG GAP WITH NOTHING HAPPENING

    11 August - Appeal for PCN 2 Rejected. Told I can appeal it with IAS.

    That brings me to today, apart from the phone conversation that I don't have a written record of, I have proof of everything else. Please tell me if I'm being stupid, but they said I could park somewhere and then they've fined me... I find that extremely infuriating. Had they said I couldn't park there until the permit arrives in the post, I would have found another place to park.

    The company in question is Link Parking.

    Please can you advise on next steps? Should I appeal the PCN 2 with the same timeline I've given you with the IAS? And what should I do for PCN 1? As they haven't responded yet.

    Apologies for the lengthy e-mail, any help is appreciated!

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    • 37,976 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #2
    • 12th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    Everyone is politely asked to read upon this in the Newbies FAQ thread before starting a new thread


    Go there now to get an understanding of the game you are now caught up in


    (Aquaint yourself also with the futility of appeals to IAS)


    (Now keep on at the agent to get these cancelled)


    With IPC companies you wait and see if they take legal action, (Link are known to try Court), and ignore their debt collectors!
    Last edited by Quentin; 12-08-2018 at 7:17 PM.
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 12th Aug 18, 8:20 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    • #3
    • 12th Aug 18, 8:20 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Aug 18, 8:20 PM
    Apologies Quentin,

    I have now read through all the information provided for the newbies.

    From this, I can gather that I have messed up already by appealing to the operator with my own letter format and proof rather than using the template provided here. Especially as LinkParking is an IPC member and the advice here states to wait for Notice to Keeper to arrive but I appealed straight away hoping I could cancel it.

    I have also read into the IAS and lack of success there so that doesn't give me a lot of hope, my case would have been a slam dunk had they provided confirmation of parking in writing instead of phone which they did not do.

    So am I right in saying my option is to reject their appeal and wait till it gets to the court stage and then use the advice provided here? My only concern here is, according to parkingappeals.info, the risk profile for court appeals is quite high so these guys tend to chase up on all cases.

    Or alternatively, as I never contacted the management company of the flat I am in, I can provide the same proof to them hoping they will use common sense to get the ticket cancelled.

    What would you suggest? I think the approach would be contact management first and if it fails there, court stage. I have no proof of the phone conversation though so if it does go all the way to court will the cards be stacked against me?

    Thank you.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 8:55 PM
    • 2,448 Posts
    • 3,450 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #4
    • 12th Aug 18, 8:55 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Aug 18, 8:55 PM
    When you say your own bay. Do you own your property and, if so, is the space mentioned in the paperwork (I.e your lease). If you are renting is there anything in your tenancy agreement about it?

    Definitely worth contacting the Management Company or Managing Agent. You need to find out who the contract with Link is with - and on what authority it was introduced. It may well be the ManCo or MA has the power to cancel

    Good luck!
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 12th Aug 18, 9:15 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    • #5
    • 12th Aug 18, 9:15 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Aug 18, 9:15 PM
    Hey NeilCr,

    I own the property, its a flat within a block managed by a separate company that have employed LinkParking. The bay is marked with my flat number as well so there wasn't any issues there.

    I'm just infuriated by the fact that they said I was okay to park there and then gave me a ticket anyway!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Aug 18, 9:18 PM
    • 37,976 Posts
    • 22,087 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #6
    • 12th Aug 18, 9:18 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Aug 18, 9:18 PM

    What would you suggest? I think the approach would be contact management first and if it fails there, court stage..
    Originally posted by ssm90

    Do both.

    Wait and see. ,(Just because they do court, doesn't mean that they do with everyone, nor that they always win!

    Though do get on to whoever employs them and keep on at them to get these cancelled
    Last edited by Quentin; 12-08-2018 at 9:55 PM.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 11:18 PM
    • 2,448 Posts
    • 3,450 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #7
    • 12th Aug 18, 11:18 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Aug 18, 11:18 PM
    Hey NeilCr,

    I own the property, its a flat within a block managed by a separate company that have employed LinkParking. The bay is marked with my flat number as well so there wasn't any issues there.

    I'm just infuriated by the fact that they said I was okay to park there and then gave me a ticket anyway!
    Originally posted by ssm90
    Is the bay mentioned in your lease?

    And agree with Quentin. Do both. Someone employed the PPC - you need to find out who and why.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Aug 18, 9:38 AM
    • 10,951 Posts
    • 10,912 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 13th Aug 18, 9:38 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Aug 18, 9:38 AM
    Why did you pay for a permit? Is the requirement to display a permit mentioned in the lease/AST? Read tese

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 13th Aug 18, 10:15 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    • #9
    • 13th Aug 18, 10:15 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Aug 18, 10:15 AM
    Hi The Deep,

    The signposts within the secured parking area for this block of flats have signs all over for requiring a permit.

    However, and I am not sure if this will help me, the phone number on the sign posts provided actually no longer exist. I had to google the company and find a new number before contacting them for the permit.

    I have now contacted the management company in the hopes that they will see common sense and cancel these 2 tickets. In the meantime, even though I know it is quite futile, should I appeal with the IAS? If the appeal fails will it withdraw my rights to get the ticket cancelled via the management company etc?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Aug 18, 10:30 AM
    • 10,951 Posts
    • 10,912 Thanks
    The Deep
    Hi The Deep,

    The signposts within the secured parking area for this block of flats have signs all over for requiring a permit.


    Perhaps, but the T&C of your lease/AST take precedence over any sign erected by a scammer

    If the appeal fails will it withdraw my rights to get the ticket cancelled via the management company etc?
    Originally posted by ssm90


    I do not see why it should.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Aug 18, 11:30 AM
    • 20,513 Posts
    • 32,423 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Why would you appeal to the IAS when all the evidence suggests they will dismiss it (and you, in a very condescending manner).

    What do you think this then gives the PPC? How about a document to wave before a judge showing that the industry's independent assessors have turned down your appeal, thereby strengthening their case against you.

    This is not a time to panic and grab at any straw floating in the water. Do plenty of research.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 13th Aug 18, 11:41 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    Hi Umkomaas,

    Good point, I did not think about that. I was thinking if I appealed with the IAS and still failed, it would just bring me be back to square one, didnt think that it would only strengthen their case further.

    In that case, I guess I will wait for the management company to get back to me. And if they do not help me out, I'll have to deal with a possible court issue.

    Though I have all the e-mails and time stamps, the only thing I do not have is confirmation from LinkParking saying I could park there in writing, as I only had that on the telephone. Will this not play against me in court if it got to that stage?

    EDIT: I have just received an e-mail form the management company saying they are completely independent from the parking company and they can't do anything. Instead, they have just forwarded my e-mail back to the parking company which will be of no use. I have asked the management company who employs the parking company if they're claiming that they are independent.
    Last edited by ssm90; 13-08-2018 at 11:44 AM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Aug 18, 12:56 PM
    • 20,513 Posts
    • 32,423 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I have asked the management company who employs the parking company if they're claiming that they are independent.
    Ask them if they are saying that Link are operating there without any authority in that case. That pushes them back into a corner.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 13th Aug 18, 1:00 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    This was the reply from-

    'Good Afternoon

    No one has the authority to cancel them except the Parking company they are totally independent and not part of the Site at all.

    No one has any authority to cancel them except the parking company I'm afraid and as I said they are investigating and will get back to you.'


    They're basically saying they won't do anything. So I'm going to have to wait for a reply.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Aug 18, 1:03 PM
    • 38,002 Posts
    • 85,338 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Please answer the question about whether your lease/AST mentions a permit scheme.
    If it does, is there any mention that you must pay for a permit?

    In addition, whether or not it mentions a permit, does it mention the right of an unregulated third party to issue a charge for 100.

    Your lease/AST has primacy of contract and a third party cannot override your rights.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 13th Aug 18, 1:05 PM
    • 2,448 Posts
    • 3,450 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Please answer the question about whether your lease/AST mentions a permit scheme.
    If it does, is there any mention that you must pay for a permit?

    In addition, whether or not it mentions a permit, does it mention the right of an unregulated third party to issue a charge for 100.

    Your lease/AST has primacy of contract and a third party cannot override your rights.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    And whether or not the bay is mentioned in the lease.

    Umkomaas is right re operating without authority. How did Link get on site in the first place and who agreed it.
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 13th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    When you say your own bay. Do you own your property and, if so, is the space mentioned in the paperwork (I.e your lease). If you are renting is there anything in your tenancy agreement about it?

    Definitely worth contacting the Management Company or Managing Agent. You need to find out who the contract with Link is with - and on what authority it was introduced. It may well be the ManCo or MA has the power to cancel

    Good luck!
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Please answer the question about whether your lease/AST mentions a permit scheme.
    If it does, is there any mention that you must pay for a permit?

    In addition, whether or not it mentions a permit, does it mention the right of an unregulated third party to issue a charge for 100.

    Your lease/AST has primacy of contract and a third party cannot override your rights.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Apologies, I missed this question earlier. I have gone through all the documents that were provided to me when the flat was purchased. There are only 2 mentions of parking within the documents that I can see.

    1- Land Registry Document which has a small section under a subheading of Parking which says ' Not to use any car parking space for any purpose other than the parking of one private motor car or one private motor cycle which shall be in a roadworthy condition and shall exhibit a current road license'

    2- Law Society Property Information form which says the property has 'One Parking Space' and for the question 'Is the property in a controlled parking zone or within a local authority scheme?' the Tickbox checked is for 'Unknown'.

    So both documents aren't clear on which bay to park in (even though I was parked in my own) and neither document mentions any parking scheme or requirements of permit to park. The only mention of requiring a permit is on the signposts on the site, the e-mail that confirmed this when I asked about it and a notice in the hallway for all residents.


    And whether or not the bay is mentioned in the lease.

    Umkomaas is right re operating without authority. How did Link get on site in the first place and who agreed it.
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    With regards to who gave them authority, the only response I have from them is-

    Good Morning

    There are no visitor parking spaces and you will need a permit for your own space. You will need to call the parking company for a permit, their numbers are on the signs all around the site.

    Regards

    When I queried the initial requirement for a permit

    and

    Good Morning

    The parking company is totally independent and absolutely nothing to do
    with us at all.

    I have however forwarded your complaint directly to them and requested a
    formal response back relating to this.

    I will let you know the outcome when received.

    Regards

    When I queried cancelling the tickets via the management company

    and finally

    Good Afternoon

    No one has the authority to cancel them except the Parking company they are totally independent and not part of the Site at all.

    No one has any authority to cancel them except the parking company I'm afraid and as I said they are investigating and will get back to you.

    Regards


    When I asked for who actually employed LinkParking.


    EDIT: I also want to add that I have now received 2 letters from them for each individual ticket saying they have increased the fine to 100 per ticket because I didn't appeal or respond to their original PCN. This is completely false as I appealed both PCNs and I have proof of this in my e-mail.
    Last edited by ssm90; 13-08-2018 at 1:55 PM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Aug 18, 2:06 PM
    • 10,951 Posts
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    The Deep
    You need to see the contract between the PPC and the Landowner.

    Ask them foe a copy "in order that I may consider your invoice". They cannot just rock up and start charging you without authority from someone, if the MA are in the dark who gave it to them? Keep writing the letters. The more the prevaricate the worse I would look to a judge.



    rt
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Aug 18, 2:09 PM
    • 38,002 Posts
    • 85,338 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    So, there is no mention of a permit scheme in the lease/AST. Therefore there is no requirement to buy or display a permit, and an unregulated third party cannot charge you for using your own demised space.

    If the Management Co have no control over the PPC, then who contracted them? If it was not the MC, and not the landowner, then they are acting unlawfully and possibly illegally.
    You need to be more forceful with the MC and challenge them on these points.

    With whom does the PPC have a contract, because it is not with you? Your lease is silent on this and therefore the PPC cannot levy a charge against you.

    You could ask the scammers direct. With whom do you have a parking contract? Don't ask for a copy in this instance because you won't get it. You just want to know who brought them in, then you can have a pop at whover that is.

    Ask for sight of the contract once you know who the other party is.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-08-2018 at 2:11 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • ssm90
    • By ssm90 13th Aug 18, 2:14 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ssm90
    You need to see the contract between the PPC and the Landowner.

    Ask them foe a copy "in order that I may consider your invoice". They cannot just rock up and start charging you without authority from someone, if the MA are in the dark who gave it to them? Keep writing the letters. The more the prevaricate the worse I would look to a judge.



    rt
    Originally posted by The Deep

    So, there is no mention of a permit scheme in the lease/AST. Therefore there is no requirement to buy or display a permit, and an unregulated third party cannot charge you for using your own demised space.

    If the Management Co have no control over the PPC, then who contracted them? If it was not the MC, and not the landowner, then they are acting unlawfully and possibly illegally.
    You need to be more forceful with the MC and challenge them on these points.

    With whom does the PPC have a contract, because it is not with you? Your lease is silent on this and therefore the PPC cannot levy a charge against you.

    You could ask the scammers direct. With whom do you have a parking contract? Don't ask for a copy in this instance because you won't get it. You just want to know who brought them in, then you can have a pop at whover that is.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Yes, that's what it seems like, there's no mention of requiring a permit.

    Thank you both, I will wait for the management company to get back to me first, if they do not prove to be helpful, I will question them on their agreement with Link. I will also ask the same of LinkPark and address the letter as 'In order to consider your invoice' as you have suggested.

    There is definitely something dodgy going on here as they keep increasing the fines unlawfully. I will come back with an update, hopefully something positive!
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