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  • FIRST POST
    • AnonymousMoose
    • By AnonymousMoose 12th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    AnonymousMoose
    What Happens After Most Appeals?
    • #1
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    What Happens After Most Appeals? 12th Aug 18 at 2:13 PM
    Hello, my vehicle was slapped with a park watch fine the other week. I plan on using the appeal template in the newbies thread. I was wondering what usually happens after the appeal is sent. What are the chances they don't take it any further? I'm 19 and haven't really had to deal with anything like this before but I'm curious enough to fight it just to see how it goes.

    Thanks
    Last edited by AnonymousMoose; 12-08-2018 at 10:14 PM.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • 36,837 Posts
    • 20,963 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    Most initial appeals fail ,(they don't get any money by accepting appeals)

    Read up in the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum on what happens after an initial rejection
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Aug 18, 2:29 PM
    • 37,191 Posts
    • 83,902 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:29 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:29 PM
    It is not a fine.

    Park Watch are BPA members so you will get a PoPLA code where hopefully you will kill this off.

    You should also complain to the landowner, and your MP.

    The NEWBIES explains all this.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • AnonymousMoose
    • By AnonymousMoose 12th Aug 18, 2:39 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    AnonymousMoose
    • #4
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:39 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:39 PM
    Is it worth appealing despite the fact that realistically their was a sign near where the vehicle was parked and the driver just didn't see it until after the fact. The vehicle was parked directly outside the shop on the path with some bicycles which depending on what you read is both wrong or perfectly acceptable.
    Last edited by AnonymousMoose; 12-08-2018 at 10:15 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    • 8,630 Posts
    • 8,507 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    Yes .
    .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Aug 18, 3:41 PM
    • 37,191 Posts
    • 83,902 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 12th Aug 18, 3:41 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Aug 18, 3:41 PM
    I agree with KeithP.

    However you need to edit your post to remove information about who parked. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.

    Again, the NEWBIES explains this. It would seem that you have not spent enough time reading and digesting the NEWBIES information yet.
    Edit your post, then re-read the NEWBIES until you start to understand. A quick skim will just not work.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 12-08-2018 at 3:45 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 12th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    • 3,124 Posts
    • 4,784 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #7
    • 12th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    If the driver didn't see the signage it cannot have been very prominent, it is up to the scammers to prove it was.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 12th Aug 18, 4:02 PM
    • 2,700 Posts
    • 3,396 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #8
    • 12th Aug 18, 4:02 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Aug 18, 4:02 PM
    this is what you are up against




    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    and slightly longer, the committee stage

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d5550515-cce9-4185-83ec-754dadb7524a

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

    and some quotes from the committe stage

    "The other area is hospital parking, and I want to single out one company for some pretty shady practices. That is ParkingEye"
    " is very clear to me that there is collusion between parking companies and solicitors’ firms—so-called roboclaims companies. "
    "They are often set up adjacently and involve the same directors and personnel. Incidentally, the same personnel get involved in the so-called appeals bodies."
    "Essentially, it is a money-making enterprise that takes advantage of motorists up and down the country. They operate in a very business-like fashion, which is why I call them roboclaims companies."
    "The companies are jamming up parts of our legal system."
    “I now pretty much know exactly how the parking companies and in particular the IPC have been running this scam for the past 5 years. Basically both of the appeals processes are a complete and utter sham, (and part of that sham is Gladstones Solicitors itself)”
    "The appeals process at Excel/VCS is run by a team of minimum wage office workers with no legal knowledge or experience whatsoever,"
    " It is claimed by the head of the appeals service (retired Judge Bryn Holloway) that this is a completely independent fair process, it is not”
    "The letter mentions two individuals—Will Hurley and Bryn Holloway—and concludes this is a typical example of the clear collusion between the IPC, their members and the IAS"
    "what we can do about roboclaims companies and solicitors firms that profit, often in shady ways"
    " the very large amounts of money that can be involved in such scams—a company called Smart Parking was involved in one such scam on my patch"
    "tightening up the rules regarding the unfair use of automatic number plate recognition" "BW Legal, regularly issues 10,000 county court judgments a month, and is known to have issued 28,000 in one month"
    "They are jamming up our court system, and are often totally unjustified."
    " because the lifeblood of trying to extort money from people is having access to their details."

    All from Parking (Code of Practice) Bill (First sitting) Hansard







    Ralph
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Aug 18, 4:06 PM
    • 18,872 Posts
    • 29,683 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 12th Aug 18, 4:06 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Aug 18, 4:06 PM
    Checking parking signage in any car park is going to have to be a 'must' for any driver looking to park up.

    Whether it's the signage not being prominent, or just a laissez faire attitude among motorists, something is going to have to change. Check the signage, comply, PPC on their way out of business.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Checking parking signage in any car park is going to have to be a 'must' for any driver looking to park up.

    Whether it's the signage not being prominent, or just a laissez faire attitude among motorists, something is going to have to change. Check the signage, comply, PPC on their way out of business.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Couldn't agree more.

    Every time I read The Deep's regular post which ends with the comment " with a fair wind they will be out of business by Xmas" I nod. But I also, very much hope, that robust and fair measures are introduced whereby those who break the "parking rules" do get their comeuppance.

    Unfortunately, due to the lax and lassez faire attitude of (some) PPCs (some) selfish parkers get away with it by exploiting the loopholes in the process.

    I have no desire to go after anyone unjustly accused - however, it's about time those whose behaviour brings about the introduction of PPCs are bought to book. There have been two or three cases on this forum recently where I've despaired. Why the hell should these people get away with it!
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Aug 18, 5:47 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 5,000 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    There have been two or three cases on this forum recently where I've despaired. Why the hell should these people get away with it!
    The great strength of the courts is that each case is dealt with on its merits and the claimant has to prove their case. If they "get away with it", then the case hasn't been proven.

    If you wish to be in a position to judge - apply to be a judge.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 6:01 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    NeilCr
    The great strength of the courts is that each case is dealt with on its merits and the claimant has to prove their case. If they "get away with it", then the case hasn't been proven.

    If you wish to be in a position to judge - apply to be a judge.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu

    Maybe. But, I don't think it's impossible to judge from a thread that someone has, actually, committed the offence.

    You would seem to agree from your comment here

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5856435&page=2#topofpage
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Aug 18, 6:05 PM
    • 36,837 Posts
    • 20,963 Thanks
    Quentin
    We aren't acting as a judge/jury member in this forum!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Aug 18, 6:15 PM
    • 9,969 Posts
    • 9,757 Thanks
    The Deep
    From my own experience, a great many offenders are residents with two cars, and only one space. This encourages MA to appoint PPCs who then ticket properly parked residents for infringing their made up rules.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 6:16 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    NeilCr
    We aren't acting as a judge/jury member in this forum!
    Originally posted by Quentin

    Well. You are when it comes to PPCs!

    I am not acting as judge and jury. If I was I'd be commenting on individual threads and picking on them. What I am saying is that some posters on here have actually "committed the crime" but with help from this forum (because of the rubbish way some PPCs go about their business) have got away with it. No problems because that is on the PPCs and those who employ them

    Do you disagree?
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 6:18 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    NeilCr
    From my own experience, a great many offenders are residents with two cars, and only one space. This encourages MA to appoint PPCs who then ticket properly parked residents for infringing their made up rules.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Absolutely, spot on. But there is someone who has flouted the rules to begin with.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Aug 18, 6:27 PM
    • 36,837 Posts
    • 20,963 Thanks
    Quentin
    Well. You are when it comes to PPCs!

    I am not acting as judge and jury. If I was I'd be commenting on individual threads and picking on them. What I am saying is that some posters on here have actually "committed the crime" but with help from this forum (because of the rubbish way some PPCs go about their business) have got away with it. No problems because that is on the PPCs and those who employ them

    Do you disagree?
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Of course


    This forum helps. (Full stop!)


    Not for us to decide on guilt or innocence!


    The arms might be the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of parking crimes as you see them.


    Not here in this forum - unless you have an agenda for this view!


    Helpers aren't acting as judges at all - just offering help!
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 6:56 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Of course


    This forum helps. (Full stop!)


    Not for us to decide on guilt or innocence!


    The arms might be the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of parking crimes as you see them.


    Not here in this forum - unless you have an agenda for this view!


    Helpers aren't acting as judges at all - just offering help!
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Just to check what you are disagreeing with. That some posters have, actually, done wrong and have got off because of the sheer ineptitude of the PPCs?

    And, yes, this forum helps. Very well for some folks. It does what it says on the tin and is pretty effective in a number of cases. I admire, greatly, the input and sheer hard work and commitment of a small number of the regulars here.

    And, maybe, this should be in the arms. But, you know, there is a whole lot of generalisation here about PPCs - you only have to look at The Deep's regular posts to see that so don't think my comments are unreasonable.

    I have an agenda, yes. And that is to ensure that those selfish parkers who mess it up for others get their just desserts - within a fair and equitable system. Is there anything wrong with that?
    Last edited by NeilCr; 12-08-2018 at 6:58 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Aug 18, 7:30 PM
    • 36,837 Posts
    • 20,963 Thanks
    Quentin
    Just to check what you are disagreeing with....
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Your accusation that I act as the judge/jury on the PPCS!


    I just offer help to people - as do others.


    You not happy with that is irrelevant


    You are entitled to your opinion, but pointless using this forum to air it!


    Especially pointless hijacking the OP's thread!
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Aug 18, 7:58 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Your accusation that I act as the judge/jury on the PPCS!


    I just offer help to people - as do others.


    You not happy with that is irrelevant


    You are entitled to your opinion, but pointless using this forum to air it!


    Especially pointless hijacking the OP's thread!
    Originally posted by Quentin
    But I am not unhappy that people give help here. Perhaps you can point out where I said that. Indeed in my last post I commented that that I greatly admire what some of the regular posters do.

    What I was saying was that some people here "get away with it" because of the uselessness of the PPCs and the loopholes this causes. I have no idea whether or not you agree with this comment.

    I did not hijack this thread. The estimable Umkomaas made a general comment which I responded to and it moved on from there. I don't quite understand why my opinion is pointless. Bit of a shame if some posters have such closed minds that they can't consider another point of view. I am quite happy to admit that I've changed my outlook on the use of PPCs since I turned up here,
    Last edited by NeilCr; 13-08-2018 at 7:09 AM.
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